<p>ThE<em>GuRl</em>NeXt_DoOr -- simfish is basically right in that we can't really take more than one or two "questionable" grades like B+'s or below in math or science classes. While we'll be understanding if your rank is low-ish (7th percentile or something) because some people have many A+'s in trivial classes, we won't be understanding if your rank is lowish because you have B's. Since at Caltech many people with straight A's at very good schools end up struggling, it would be cruel to admit people with B's. </p>
<p>By the way, noboby should take my pass/fail comment literally. I basically meant that we don't make a big deal of small details, so people who are worried about relatively minor variations in rank due to unfair school nonsense are wasting their energy worrying needlessly. However, there's certainly no numerical cutoff between "pass" and "fail" or anything like that. We just consider all the grades in light of the school where they were achieved, etc., and either say "these are good, impress me with other things now (essays, research)" or "there are some serious problems here -- a B in physics!? -- unless there's a great explanation, this kid would probably struggle".</p>
<p>So the bottom line is that you want to avoid red flags like suboptimal grades in math and science courses as much as possible, and don't spend time worrying about trivialities like exact rank or exact GPA.</p>
<p>Eek. What if I got a B in math my junior year? Would it make a difference if I emphasized somewhere that it was one of those combined two years of math in one type things?</p>
<p>I think you said that SAT IIs were on a sort of pass/fail basis. What would be the borderline on those? Specifically Chem and Math II?</p>
<p>And yet another complication, I'm Canadian but I'm in the process of applying for US permanent residency. Is that taken into account?</p>
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What if I got a B in math my junior year?
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Not great. Could be fixed with enough work, but certainly will raise eyebrows. Sorry.</p>
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I think you said that SAT IIs were on a sort of pass/fail basis. What would be the borderline on those? Specifically Chem and Math II?
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Chem we're flexible -- anything above 730 or 740 is okay. In math, since you can get a lot wrong and get an 800, anything more than 30 points below that will worry us.</p>
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And yet another complication, I'm Canadian but I'm in the process of applying for US permanent residency. Is that taken into account?
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Probably not. On the other hand, we don't really consider Canadians the same way as internationals if I recall correctly, so your chances are better.</p>
<p>Ben, I am from India. I appeared for Manipal UGET (Medical Stream) exam this year and secured a rank near 6000 (All India Rank). Since I didnt get any certificate which states this rank of mine (though it is on their website, which will be there till October Mid, i hope), will it be of any use if I will state this rank of mine in Academic Achievements section in my application to your university??</p>
<p>Hmm. I have a question - I got a C in Precalculus in freshman year high school, first semester. I know that screws up things, but at the moment I'm a high school senior taking Vector Calculus at UCSD, and going to take Intro to Partial DifEq there winter quarter. Will this make up for that C I got?</p>
<p>BTW - 2320 SAT here, 4.3 cumulative GPA. Took first semester Calculus at 14.</p>
<p>I have a question for you, Ben Golub: my son, currently a junior at a large public high school in So. Calif., was not able to fit all of the AP and honors classes he wanted to take into his schedule, plus Academic Decathlon, which is one of his "passions." In order to take all the AP's he wanted, he has no sixth period class, since there was nothing suitable offered that period for him to take, and he's taking honors precalculus online through Stanford EPGY. THe problem is the timing for AP testing: he'll finish precalculus by December, but probably won't get through caluclus in time to take the May AP test. With EPGY, however, he can probably get through second-year calculus by the end of senior year. If he doesn't ever take the calculus AB or BC test, how would that affect admissions or math placement at CalTech? Thanks!</p>
<p>Interesting situation. Certainly don't try to rush through calculus in less than a semester. It won't be any fun and even if you do get a 5 it won't be worth it. He should get very good EPGY grades and submit them. Since we know EPGY -- the standards are pretty rigorous -- it won't count for (significantly) less than an AP score.</p>
<p>It is a little surprising that he only got to precalculus as a junior -- but often that's nonsense school bureaucracy standing in the way of progressing at the optimal pace.</p>
<p>I think that you would more than make up for the lack of AP Calc by taking DiffEq, or analysis, or intro abstract algebra, at EPGY. That would be impressive.</p>
<p>Your son may be able to zip through the precalc course. Much of it is a review of algebra 2. If he finishes precalc quickly, he might be able to get far enough along in the calculus sequence to take the AB exam in May. Contact EPGY to find out how far through the course he needs to be to cover all the material on the test.</p>
<p>When my son realized he wouldn't finish the physics course before the AP test, he contacted his tutor who advised him to skip over some course sections which weren't on the test and come back to them later. I don't know if the same is true of the calc course. You may want to check with the tutors. </p>
<p>Tip: If your son decides to take the AB calc test this May, sign him up for calculus the month before he expects to finish precalc. Then call EPGY, explain the situation and ask that the calc course CDs be sent before precalc is finished. As soon as the precalc final is graded and posted, you can call EPGY for the calc password. If you wait until after your son finishes precalc to enroll him in calc, he may be delayed in starting calc by a few weeks.</p>
<p>... but be aware that the harm of a 4 will significantly exceed the benefit of a 5 on the AP test. Since Math 1 here is pretty hard even for people who got pretty much all the questions right on the AP Calc test, a 4 will raise eyebrows. So unless the level of preparation will be such that your son is positive that he won't make that many mistakes, don't take the AP test.</p>
<p>Ben, If I got an 800 on the Chem AP subject test(SAT 2), would that mitigate the effect of getting a 4 on the AP examination??? Should I just not include the 4 or will that raise some eyebrows at Caltech??? Also, can I attach a note explaining why I unfortunately got a 4 instead of a 5(I was truly sick on AP exam day and I wasn't allowed to switch to the B exam date), or would that fall into the category of making excuses???</p>
<p>Don't list the 4 when you tell us about your AP scores. The excuse sounds plausible but still wouldn't help that much -- your 800 speaks for itself. It will mostly mitigate the effect of no AP score listed (which is still probably better than the 4).</p>
<p>: ) Also consider being more economical with your question marks. Inquisitiveness is commendable, but only in reasonable quantities.</p>
<p>Ben tell me one thing..See in India unlike other countries the Internal examinations (i.e. school examinations of class 9 and 11th) differ a lot from the external (the famous Indian BOARDS exams of class 10th and 12th). See basically here the boards are the only exams where a set standard is followed: and in the internal exams the marking varies and the rigor also varies. Like in my school students only get like 65-80 in Maths in class 11 although at other schools in the country students might get in 90's. This is because in my school we do like Differential Equations and Multinomial and what not in the Junior year.</p>
<p>So my point here is that do you people compare the students from India with respect to board marks or with internal marks (which can be very misleading). Please resolve my dilemma</p>
<p>Ben one more thing,
I am planning to take some advance placement exams in May,2006. As the scores wont reach you people for admissions do you think it is still a good thing to take the exam for placement purposes..and if by some mischance I have to take an year off(say if I am rejected from Caltech) will they add to my Resume.</p>
<p>P.S. I finally registered for the IOI. You do remember me dont you..pestered you about my chances a lot.</p>
<p>A third question but this one is general.
In India we have classes for whole of the year (not per semester) so does that mean that we are on a block schedule system.</p>
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So my point here is that do you people compare the students from India with respect to board marks or with internal marks (which can be very misleading). Please resolve my dilemma.
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</p>
<p>We realize the internal standards vary widely. In these cases we would rely more on things like class rank if available and standardized scores, as well as Olympiad results and the like.</p>
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do you think it is still a good thing to take the exam for placement purposes
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</p>
<p>At Caltech, AP scores are not accepted for placement. Our courses are too hard. If you want to place out, you have to take Caltech's own placement exams. However, studying for the AP might help you prepare for our exams. Also, if you reapply, AP scores would be useful because then they would be available to submit with the application.</p>
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In India we have classes for whole of the year (not per semester) so does that mean that we are on a block schedule system.
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</p>
<p>No. Block scheduling is something else (ask me about it if you really care what it is.)</p>
<p>Thanks Ben..Your replies are always very very helpful.
I guess then I dont have to worry about my internal marks and all.(hehe..its kind of a situation u and sakky were discussing sometime back and my school is in the role of caltech where the courses are way too out of the league and therefore the internal marking is a bit lower than others...and I hope caltech never changes that intensity to follow the LAC type curriculum)</p>