The question everyone has on their mind.

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
1

<p>I am currently a senior high school and I was wondering what my chances are of getting that good letter from Caltech in April (Im not applying EA, obviously): </p>

<p>I have not-so-great numbers when it comes to SAT tests.....theres a hidden anxiety about taking the SATs that I have yet to conquer: SAT (1330) Math(670) Verbal (660), SAT II Writing (680), SAT II Biology E/M (650), (I'm taking SAT II Chemistry in Dec.) and I am taking SAT II IIC this weekend. I havent got my ACT scores yet, but imagine there about the same as my SATs.
I have a plethora (great word) of extra-curricular activities including research at Caltech and UCLA. (concert violinist for 4 yrs, guitar for 3 yrs, soccer for 12 yrs, baseball for 6 yrs., science bowl, ACADECA)
I have work experience (Solar Energy company- physical labor job)
Community Service (40+ hrs)
I took all the challenging course offered to me at my school, even though my school doesnt offer much (AP Bio (4), AP Chem (3), AP Lang (3), AP US hist (5))
I have good recommendations (two required + 1 caltech post-doc and 1 UCLA professor)
I have taken 5 different college level courses at the local community college and I am taking two this semster (Calculus and Physics) and I will take two next semster (Calculus II and Physics for Engineers)
Someone on the admissions board knows me by name
I'm a nice guy....</p>

<p>I was thinking about not applying, even though Caltech has been the best campus I've been too (MIT was boring). The reason was my SAT scores, and right now I have no more time to improve them. My friends tell me to apply, but I am the kind of person to not delay the inevitable.....so, Is there a chance? Can hell freeze over?</p>

2

<p>So I would say that you have a low chance, but it's possible. The standardized test scores are weak across the board, and will certainly hamper you. The admissions committee is going to wonder why you have a 5 on AP history and 3/4 on your science ones. If the research that you did at Caltech was something interesting, and the postdoc (a professor would be better) writes you a commanding letter of recommendation, it's possible. But why not apply - it takes a few hours and $50, but has the chance to have an amazing impact on your life. </p>

<p>I'm going to guess that Ray is the one from Admissions that knows you? </p>

<p>galen</p>

3

<p>The person I know on the admissions board is Robert McKeown. I just took my SAT Math IIC, and it seemed pretty easy....I did recieve the NEST student award from MIT in 10th grade.....the research I have with Caltech is the CHICOS (cosmic ray) program and at UCLA I go every week to the LAPTAG plasma laboratory to do research.....the only dissapointing aspect of rejection from Caltech would be the fact that I put os much effort into the research...I go every friday from 4-730, and every saturday from 10-4 to UCLA....and i really enjoy the research, its really interesting, but the fact that standardized tests might ruin my chances is dissapointing. I was wondering if my extra curriculars make me the proverbial "well rounded" student....
The AP tests are a little wierd....my AP Biology teacher was amazing....but the year we took the test (2003) his pass rate went from a 94% to a 68% because we had a lab that had never shown up on any AP test in the history of AP Biology...its not a good excuse, but its the best I can think of
Chemistry - the teacher did not teach towards the AP test, i studied every day for a month trying to figure out the form of the test and well....how to get a 5.....and I thought i had done well....but, I guess not....History is an easy subject for me....especially US history
I donot know why I do so bad on the actual SAT I....but whatever it is, it doesnt seem to get any better because I took it the first time, i got an 1160 (580, 580), I took it the second time I got a 1320 (660, 660) and I took it a thrid time and got a 1330 (660, 670).
Until then, I'll cross my fingers...but thanks for answering my post</p>

4

<p>I told you you should apply Captain,
You should really start listening to me.
Shir</p>

5

<p>Wow. A student of contrasts. While your scores are much lower than the average Caltech applicant, (Caltech almost certainly expects scores in the 700s) your research really makes you stand out. Now, Caltech might be lenient and recognize that you aren't the type wo generally performs well on tests (it's rare and more common at a university like UChicago but it's still possible). Don't get your hopes too high but of course you should apply.</p>

6

<p>actually I dont mean to steal the thread, but Im a pretty strong contrast to the example here.</p>

<p>Lacking GPA (around 3.4 ish unweighted) but strong SATs</p>

<p>SAT reasoning : 800M 700R 680W (it is my understanding that the W score should be thrown out as they dont require the new SAT)
SAT II: 780IIC 770Phys</p>

<p>Im an expat in Brussels, Belgium, so my extra curriculars aren't so substantial.<br>
Im an IB student (not full diploma, as I wouldn't be able to take an extra Math course) and so I have no formal test scores as the IB program ends at the end of senior year.</p>

<p>My current schedule:</p>

<p>IB Higher Math
IB Higher Physics
IB Higher Chemistry
IB Higher English (literature course)
IB Standard Further Math (Highest math course availible)
Spanish 4 (Prep for AP test, highest non-native spanish course available)</p>

<p>I am also doing a self study to take the AP French and AP Comp Sci AB tests. (I have no idea how I can let Caltech know this though)</p>

<p>Only AP test I've had the oppurtunity to take was AP calc AB (5), and that was off of the first year of IB Higher Math.</p>

<p>Sports:
Huge jumble due to the fact that I moved from Southern California to Belgium right before my sophmore year.
Captain of Cross Country
Captian of Swim Team
Will be captain of Track (hopefully... but that'll be after the apps are in)
Lacrosse
Founded Ultimate Frisbee Club (we don't get to play very often, but its an official club and we play occasionally)</p>

<p>Other extras....
Math team
NHS
founder of cynics club (an open forum for constructive criticism.... not sure how well that will fly with a university.... left it off the stanford app...)</p>

<p>what am I looking like?
I applied early to stanford (single choice)
Im applying normal to Caltech
and Im applying under rolling admission to BYU (Im mormon = fun atmosphere, and its very inexpensive, yet is still a good enough school to no hinder my acceptance into a strong graduate program -- such as at Caltech or Stanford.)</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

7

<p>I'd definitely apply if I were you--you will not be invited to attend without your application & all you have to lose is some time & $50. You really liked CalTech when you researched there, have made some connections on campus & are somewhat of a "known commodity" for them, since you've had experience there.
Much better to apply & give it a chance than second guess yourself & say, "What if?" later.</p>

8

<p>hmm....what are my chances....
Bangladeshi male...
4 A's in A-Levels, 9 A's in O-Levels
SAT 1 2150 SAT 2 2400?
Resear work ICDDR'B, Summer Job- in a small hitherto unknown Label Firm
ECA's- plenty of science/maths activities...President of the Science CLub in school 2 yrs,
NO substantial other ECA"s apart from Karate..my school doesn't have much science/math related ECA's....yeah i know its bangladesh...what do you expect?
IS IT TOO RISKY TO APPLY?</p>

9

<p>As an academic and Caltech alum, I have a more serious concern: Do you feel you could keep up with the workload? Especially in Math and Physics.</p>

<p>Because of the Caltech core, the reliance on SATs is a very useful filter for the minimum acceptable aptitude necessary to survive. It's not perfect and some good students have had scores at the lower end of Caltech's scale.</p>

<p>But Caltech is not <strong>insert some well-known grade-inflated university</strong> where even students who are far below the school's average can find ways to graduate. You might end up miserable while you might enjoy science more somewhere else.</p>

<p>I don't want to discourage you but let's be blunt: there's a reason Caltech has a lower graduation rate than any other top 25 school. So I am disturbed by the people who just say, go ahead and apply. </p>

<p>Talk to students there about the Math 1 and 2 sequence and see how you feel about it. Look up Apostol's text. If you (realistically) feel you could handle it, THEN you should apply.</p>

<p>Where's Ben when you need him?</p>

10

<p>Yes, it's true, while the research opportunity at Caltech is tremendous the classes are really rigorous and demanding. If the underaverage score at the standardized test is caused by sickness or no preparation (at all), then it may be ok. But if you find a slightest difficulty to solve those questions, you may find Caltech is too much. Try to flip the Finney's calculus book and perhaps Lectures on Physics vol 1. If you found those are pretty manageable, then you may be good enough to pass all the Caltech core classes along the way.</p>

11

<p>mmmmm......sorry for stealing the thread again, but....how can i prove to CalTech (or any other college) that i took certain college course while being in high school?
Do they have to see college credit and the grade (which meens i'll have to pay for it, but i just cannot afford it) OR can i simply sit there and listen to the professor, take the test at the end (if he allows me to), and then ask him to send a some sort of validation letter?</p>

12

<p>Hriundeli -- a signed letter from a professor signifying your grade will do.</p>

13

<p>Hmm... Not quite old -- the original post with low SAT's was from 2004, so presumably that's not at issue anymore. I agree that someone who does poorly on, say, the math SAT or the physics SAT II for some reason other than trivial arithmetic mistakes would have serious difficulty at Caltech. A pattern of low scores would be a serious strike against, obviously.</p>

<p>To kermit -- your GPA is way low. What is a 3.4 evidence of? Laziness? Bad teaching? Extracurrics outside math/science are strong, and math club puts something in the "math/science extracurric" box, but the grades are not good.</p>

<p>Since everything else has no major problems, we'd give the application a serious read. But I imagine the spate of B's will put this at somewhere around 40% chance, maybe less... you are helped, however, by the fact that international grading is strict and so we expect fewer straight A students.</p>

<p>(This is all predicated on the assumption that you're applying as an American citizen living abroad. If you were international, there would really be no way.)</p>

14

<p>The GC at our school says the HS puts college courses on the HS transcript somewhere & you can mention it in the ap. If the school wants confirmation, they will ask you or your GC & you can send an extra transcript from the college, which at the college son took a course is an additional $5 per place you have it sent to. Since he only took one course (Intro to Statistics), it's not that big a deal to him, tho he did get an A in the course.</p>

15

<p>I imagine at other places transcripts might cost a ridiculous amount (by the standards of the people who need them). That's why some sort of semi-official note from the professor will suffice. If credit/whatever becomes an issue later, there are other ways for us to confirm that the course was indeed taken.</p>

16

<p>...like peeling open your brain to see if the knowledge gained in the class is sitting there. Muahaha.</p>

17

<p>Hahahhahaha. That is funny.</p>

18

<p>i wudn't even go 2 ur chances bcuz ur statement 'its Bangladesh..what do u expect?' really really flabbergasted me....how can u denounce your own country like that?</p>

<p>academically ur good...ur SAT 1 may be below caltech's average...but ur SAT 2 covers up for it...ur ECs are abstemious though .....I am sure that caltech also looks for kids with strong personalities .....so..i really think that a person who can put a comment like that about his own country deserves to be 'thin enveloped' by caltech...</p>

19

<p>what's with the "it's bangladesh, what do you expect" crap? dont kid around with these people, rezwan... plenty of EC opportunities in bangladesh.... instead of complaining abt the country, u could've easily turned it into ur favour and CREATED some opportunities urself... would've earned you some credit for founding clubs as well... there are plenty of people to help here, plenty of environmental problems u can tackle and living in a country like ours is likely to give u the sensitivity to write an essay abt some of the things u've seen that can only be found in third world countries... so before u paint a "nothing-can-be-done-here" picture of ur country, think twice about all the stuff you could've done... and don't shift the blame of ur lack of initiative on the country.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
dont kid around with these people, rezwan... plenty of EC opportunities in bangladesh.... instead of complaining abt the country, u could've easily turned it into ur favour and CREATED some opportunities urself... would've earned you some credit for founding clubs as well...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I as an ex-resident of Bangladesh agree with kee. You could start a non-profit organization (like I did) and work on gathering funds to help the poor beggars on the road. Adcoms will laugh at your "science club" ec, seriously. You have great potential to make a difference, just be creative. You could help deal with all the problems in bdesh with your ecs and still stand out in the international applicant pool.</p>

<p>btw, i learned this the hard way. However I learned from experiece and I am now working to enhance literacy in America among the poor citizens. I have currently gathered 12,000+ books all by myself and distribute them nationwide (hopefully to countries in Africa in a year). I have to intension to brag, my point is that you can do a phenomenal EC.All you need are some creative ideas. Just go with your passion. </p>

<p>btw, grades alone wont get you anywhere in the US, fyi. I scored a 2320 on the SAT with 9 APs this year and I still have time for my 6 Ecs, excluding my 2000 hours of community service.</p>