<p>was going through this site and i found some information that said that cap 21, tisch of NYU accept 80 students out of about 900 students which is 9% admitting.
I also found that Tisch is not the only school that is the "under 10% super extreme" competitive school. In fact, there were so many!! Many other schools like University of Michigan and Boston Conservatory were under 10% admitting rate as well.
I would like to know why these musical theater schools are extremely competative to get in. I don't get why many of these schools limit their number of students to a very little number. I would understand if only one or two schools were this competative and would think of them as "Oh, it's one of the schools that are ridiculously competative" but i don't get why MOST of the musical theater schools are ridiculously competative.
For example, for music conservatories, not all schools are under 10% admittance rate. I only know two music conservatories out of many out there that are under 10%; they are Juilliard and Curtis Institue of Music.
i do understand the fact that musical theater major is very popular and many people are competiting but isn't like 10 musical theater schools having under 10% admittance rate a little too extreme? Does that mean there can only be less than 500 people in United States who can be a musical theater major from decent schools every year?
i would also like to know some of the musical theater schools that have around 20~30% admittance rate (IF there are ANY out there o.O).</p>
<p>Kevin, I will try to answer your question, yes MT is very hard to get into, I've heard it's harder to get into than med school. Because of the intensity of the program the classes must be kept very small, indvidual attention to each student is key. For example in a class of 30, in say, acting, that meets one hour 3 times a week, would leave a student with only 6 minutes a week, to perhaps perform a monologue and get it critiqued, etc. Also these schools must maintain a standard, after all they are trying to turn out professionals, not just people who like to sing, dance or act a little. The more sucessful students each of the programs turns out the better reputation they gain. There are lots of ways for kids who like to sing or act to participate in college without being in one of these intense programs. Also I think there is an important organization that gives these schools accredidation that requires small class sizes. I'm sure others will chime in with more information.</p>
<p>Most of the Musical Theatre Schools are very competitive because the major is popular and it is a degree that requires students get individual attention... private voice lessons, acting classes, dance classes... voice lessons are one-on-one, and acting and dance classes work best when they have no more than 12 - 15 in a class... certainly no more than 20 tops. Even schools which are not "top-tier" schools have a limited number of students they can responsibly accomodate. I know of one auditioned BA school that wants 6 - 8 per class, sees about 30 students audition and makes offers to 8 - 10to yield 6 - 8... That is about a 30% admit rate. Another that wants 10 - 12 per class sees about 70 students audition and will admit about 15 to yield 10 - 12... That is about a 20% admit rate. The odds are better than the "top tier" schools.... fewer people auditioning for the spots... but still competitive. There are schools that are non-auditioned, and it is a good idea to have some of those schools on your college list. It has been stated on this board many times that non school that has an audition is a safety school. There is a list of a few non-auditioned MT schools on the parent 2008 discussion board.</p>
<p>I'll chime in here also to comment from an institutional perspective. The previous posters are exactly right - the resource allocation to BFA education is extremely high for most schools/departments. The faculty to student ratio is tiny in comparison to other majors. For instance, at my institution, BFA performance classes do not have more than 12 students. With the exception of small private colleges, that is fairly unusual at the undergraduate level. (For instance, you won't often find a biology class of 10 students.) </p>
<p>Some of the reasons for low admit percentages are not funding-related. Other considerations may have to do with how a school approaches the education of these students. The definition of a BFA degree is that it is a professional training program. When we graduate a student from a BFA program, we are making a statement about that student: this individual has been trained and is ready to work in the professional arena. The type of training these students receive is often very individualized and heavily mentored. We will only take as many students as we feel we can provide this type of environment. What I'm trying to say (not very articulately, I'm afraid) is that it's not even a case of hiring more faculty so we can accept more students. For some of us, it's a matter of deciding the type of experience we want to provide for the student. In order to foster positive mentoring relationships between faculty/staff and students, and positive, collegial relationships between students; small numbers are almost critical.</p>
<p>Don’t forget that there is no math as a further attraction to the major!</p>
<p>I think All4FSU has given a responsible answer that I would twist a little bit. If every program suddenly doubled their capacity there would not be a subsequent doubling of the available professional work. I could imagine no worse of a scenario than to be a teacher at a conservatory and to be encouraging and enthusiastic about the future of a student(s) who in the back of your mind you know they have no chance of making it professionally. So, for their own integrity and the limited amount of professional work their only choice is to keep the programs small.</p>
<p>That said lets look at the numbers because I don’t think it is as bad as you think. If you only apply to one school with a 10% admit rate then your chances are 10% right? Or are they? First most schools hold on campus auditions that attract “locals” many of whom are not that serious about a profession in theater. “It sounds like something that might be fun to try” with a pretty limited knowledge of what it takes to make it in a conservatory. Example; I overheard a conversation between two girls at the Unifieds, “how is your monologue coming? Its okay, I haven’t memorized all of it but I have the gist of it”. So, if you are a serious and experienced applicant I think you can subtract out a certain percentage of the applicants that really are not a threat to take your spot from you. </p>
<p>Next, nobody is just applying for one program. Say you have 5 schools who each audition 500 applicants and each of the schools admit say 20 students. There are not 2,500 separate applicants (5 x 500) seeking 100 spots (5 x 20). By in large it’s the same 500 applicants vying for the 100 spots (20%). Then, talented as many kids may be your just not going to have 500 kids in any one given year with what it takes to thrive and survive elite conservatory life to go on and become a professional. You would be lucky if that number was even the 100 to match the open spots. So if this is your passion and you have complimented natural talent with lots of hard work, the odds are not as bad as they seem at first blush.</p>
<p>WOW thx everyone. ok, i guess i have to tell everyone the reason i asked the first question.
I'm a high school student who goes to an art high school that has a really good musical theater program with many dance studios, performance opportunities, etc, etc....
My recent problem is that i'm also a very good composer as well. i have been looking for colleges that offer double major of music composition and musical theater.
Can some people tell me some of those colleges, that are not NYU or University of Michigan(those are the only colleges that i found so far), that offer double major in Music Composition and Musical Theater?</p>
<p>Double majors are not that that common with BFA programs. You might also want to explore where you can do music composition as a minor, etc. </p>
<p>Look into Emerson or Boston Conservatory because their students can cross register with Berklee College of Music. You might be able to take some composition courses. </p>
<p>Further, you may wish to look at some BM in Musical Theater programs as these are in music schools and might have some options to take music electives in composition.</p>
<p>Let me also put it out there that even if you major in Musical Theater, that does not preclude your composing musicals. For example, my daughter is doing a BFA in MT but she just composed a mini musical that was performed a week ago. There are some talented BFA in MT students at UMich who have composed musicals that have been performed widely. There are ways to be involved in this even if studying MT.</p>
<p>You can double major in Music Comp and Musical Theatre at Baldwin-Wallace because both majors offer a BM so there is a lot of crossover in the course work, but it is very difficult to do. There is someone in my class who started off doing this, but ended up droping his Comp major this year cause it was too much. He still takes some of the comp classes as electives though. If you can get a lot of credits out of the way before college (AP credits) I would say it's definatly possible to do.</p>
<p>Oklahoma City University has a Comp major as well as MT, both are BMs, like Baldwin-Wallace. I'll reiterate what BWMT09 said though.. it's extremely difficult to do both. Musical Theatre is a very serious track, and does not allow any extra time for a double major. MTs are very often taking the maximum allowed credits (and paying $$$ extra) because there are so so many requirements. That being said, I agree with those that said it's okay to major in performance, and still compose on the side. You can take composition electives (and as an MT major, I have comp majors in many of my music classes anyway..) Just think, there wasn't always such a thing as a composition major.. but composers composed anyway. All I'm saying, is to think very hard about a double major like that. You may end up leaving with less knowledge in both fields because you were not able to put all of the time required into each.
Just follow your passion. There are different means to an end.</p>
<p>At UM, the MT students who are interested in compostion (and also those who are interested in music direction) often arrange independent study with faculty people who themselves are music directors and composers. There have been a few such students in each BFA MT class over the past 5 years or so, and each has gone on to professional success either as a composer or music director, often while also achieving professional success as a performer! For example, Nick Blaemire, who is Abe in the national tour of ALTAR BOYZ, also wrote a show called ASS BACKWARDS that has received readings at the Kennedy Center and Signature Theatre and a concert production at Joe's Pub in NYC (as well as being performed at UM a few years ago). The very specific mentoring of the independent studies has allowed each student to focus on his specific composition education needs while still learning the craft of MT writing from the "inside out" - from the perspective of the performer! :) One of the great things about doing this type of work at UM is that the alumni are very supportive of it - Jeff Marx, one of the 2 writers of AVENUE Q and a UM alum, became personal mentor to a few of the composers.</p>
<p>is composition very demanding in time? i looked at boston conservatory's composition major curriculums and calculated the average class time spent in a week and it was about 14 hours compare to musical theater which was over 35 hours a week i think</p>
<p>Yes, I was going to double major in MT (BM) and Music Therapy (BM) and I was told that I wouldn't get out for about 7 years.</p>
<p>But then again, they are kinda different.</p>
<p>Oh, one more thing i wanted to ask. Does your race affect the admission in any ways? I know a friend of mine in boston conservatory and she told me that the school wants a balance of races. For example, since they needed a balance and they were a lot of times "short" on Asians, for Asians they were some what easier to get in. Is this, in some extent, true?</p>
<p>I am half Filipino, and I look VERY Asian, and it hasn't helped me.</p>
<p>haha</p>
<p>Since we were talking about composition - it was just announced that Benj Pasek and Justin Paul, 2 U of M 2007 MT grads (they both graduated in December in order to pursue their joint composition career full-time) have been won the Jonathan Larson award for emerging young composers. Not only that, they will be awarded the biggest amount ever from this prestigious program: $20,000! </p>
<p>From the official press release:</p>
<p>Jonathan Larson's dream was to infuse musical theatre with a contemporary,
joyful urban vitality. After 12 years of struggle as a classic "starving
artist," his dream came true with the phenomenal success of RENT. To
celebrate his creative spirit and honor his memory, Jonathan's family and
friends created the Jonathan Larson Performing Arts Foundation. The mission
of the Foundation is to provide financial support and encouragement to a new
generation of musical theatre composers, lyricists and bookwriters, as well
as nonprofit theatre companies that develop and produce their work. It is
one of the few places where individual creative theatre artists can turn for
help. Each year, the Foundation receives over 150 applications, which are
carefully reviewed by readers, staff and trustees. The finalists are sent to
a panel of noted theatre professionals to determine the final list of
recipients and grant amounts. The awards are presented at a gala awards
luncheon each February.</p>
<p>See their websites:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pasekandpaul.com%5B/url%5D">www.pasekandpaul.com</a></p>
<p>Justin, the pianist of the duo, is also an Equity actor who played the lead in UM's fall production of the Peter Mills musical PURSUIT OF PERSEPHONE.</p>
<p>BoCo has both the MT BFA, of course, and a composition degree as well. I do not think that you can double major in them though. And even if you could, the course load would be far too much for any single student. </p>
<p>Ps. Yay Edges!</p>
<p>James Madison University in VA had a BM in Music Theatre through the School of Music (they also have a BA in Musical Theatre throught the School of Theatre and Dance... the programs work cooperatively)... anyway, they have a BM in Composition as well.... I do not know if it is possible to double major per se, but it is worth checking into.... at the very least you may be able to take courses and pursue both passions.</p>