<p>I just stumbled upon this site and have a question. My first choice school at this point is Princeton; however, my chance of acceptance is probably not that great there. After that, I like the more rural small/medium sized northeast schools (such as Dartmouth, Williams, Colgate, Middlebury, Bucknell) where I probably also have a better chance of admission. Dartmouth would be my favorite of these. Is the extra push of ED significant enough to give up on the small chance I have of getting into Princeton, but then risk having to drop down to a Colgate, Middlebury, Bucknell level of school because I am unable to get into a Dartmouth or Williams in the RD round even though I was moderately above the mean at Princeton and little more than that at Dartmouth/Williams? Do I stand a reasonable chance of still getting into Dartmouth in the RD round or by how much do my chances fall by doing RD instead of ED given my situation? So I guess my question is how much does ED help a reasonably qualified, but otherwise unexceptional candidate. Obviously, I need to make this decision in the next two weeks. My stats are below to try to help those with more knowledge of this predicament assess what I should do. Thanks. </p>
<p>Public High school, suburb of Philadelphia
GPA: 4.3W, 3.8UW; Class Rank: 3/284
SAT I: 770M, 710 CR, 700W; SAT II: 760 Math II, 720 Hist, 710 Chem
ECs: Senior Class Treasurer, VP of NHS, Pres of LHS, Mock Trial Team, Academic Team; 4 years football, 3 years Lacrosse (so far) (probably not good enough to play either at Dartmouth [certainly not football])
Proposed major: Biochemistry or Economics</p>
<p>Median SAT scores for the class of 2012: 740M 730CR 730W. 40% of those ranked were top 2 in high school class. When you back out the athletes and other hooked candidates, the median for the unhooked must be considerably higher. So while a few years ago you may have been above the mean, it's not a slam dunk now. Almost a third of the class is taking a first year seminar this Fall which means they scored above 770CR! I'd have to guess an even larger number scored at least that on math too.</p>
<p>I found that it's all become a strategic game lately. It will depend on where you're from, how many from your school are applying, and many other factors not under your control whether ED will help you get in. If you're from South Dakota chances are they'll want to lock you down ED. If you're from a NYC private school it may mean a small advantage over the other 7 kids with similar stats applying RD. But I really do believe for the average kid not being recruited and without legacy ties, ED isn't going to help, you'll just get deferred until they can see where you stand in the larger pool in these tricky (yield and economy) times. You may as well apply to your dream school.</p>
<p>With hooks, the Early Decision rate is not as good as it seems. A 30% acceptance rate is a lot lower because of recruited athletes. With your stats, your odds are just as good RD as ED. And, if Princeton is your number one, why not apply ED there? The ONLY reason I can see someone applying to Dartmouth ED is because they are sure they want to go there. I've talked to admissions advisors and they say the small difference in acceptance rates (In reality it is about 4%) is not a good reason to apply ED unless it is your number 1 choice. I would say Princeton ED, then see hows things play out.</p>
<p>Now, what that means for the same candidate in ED vs RD is a different story that I've yet to see a good answer on; probably because outside of an admissions officer is unverified conjecture. </p>
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Median SAT scores for the class of 2012: 740M 730CR 730W.
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<p>Is this really the current median? The last I had seen the median was 1440. The last I had seen for Harvard and Yale were ~ 1485. Is Dartmouth really within 15 points of Harvard and Yale or have their medians gone up to?</p>
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Almost a third of the class is taking a first year seminar this Fall which means they scored above 770CR!
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<p>Wow, the %iles of the SAT must have been become further watered down; it's no wonder the Dartmouth median could be 1470. In my day, before the Class of 2000 SAT recentering, to take a Fall Freshman Seminar you needed a SAT verbal score of 670. The original scoring difference was a 70 point differential; so would have thought the new threashold would have been 740; not 770.</p>
<p>Many recruited athletes do not go ED. They are still in the process and for the ivies, because of the "likely letters", they do not often have to lock themselves into ED. The group of kids (and my kid) did not go ED as athletic recruits. </p>
<p>You have to look at the ED stats and see how much of an advantage it will give to you. Also consider if you will have regrets not having applied to your true first choice school. The dilemma is exactly as you presented it.</p>
<p>gellino, the percentiles should remain the same from year to year. 770 CR is 99th percentile, and correlates to approximately 3 wrong out of approximately 67 questions. Considering '12s were the peak year, it's not surprising our median SAT's are so high.</p>
<p>Also, the reason for raising the bar for a fall freshman seminars may very well be the fact that they are lacking professors who want to teach a fall freshmen seminar, and they want to keep seminar classes small.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, to bring in a counter-example, my friend was asked by Dartmouth and Amherst to swim for them. He had to give his decision before Early Decision, otherwise he would have to fight as a non-athlete.</p>
<p>Yes, a 670 verbal was the lowest 99%ile at the time. I guess in the last eight years, the 70 point difference vs the old verbal SAT has become a 100 point differential. Maybe, Slipper can confirm this as I believe he was one of the first classes that would have needed to adjust to this change. It probably also has something to do with more students taking the SAT as well. </p>
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Also, the reason for raising the bar for a fall freshman seminars may very well be the fact that they are lacking professors who want to teach a fall freshmen seminar, and they want to keep seminar classes small.
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<p>All students end up taking a Freshman Seminar at Dartmouth, though, so why would professors really care if they're teaching it in the Fall or Winter? I doubt as an alternative that profs are looking forward to more students in English 5 instead.</p>
<p>Yes, most of the ivies are within a few points of HYP. There really has been a closing of any gap since our day. There was even a major narrowing in the seven years between my oldest and youngest applying to top schools.</p>