Advice for a HS Sophomore

College Search & Selection
1

I’m new to this forum and a California HS sophomore just beginning to do preliminary college research. Obviously, this could change after high school, but my passion is for appellate law. I would likely major in political science, and maybe double in that with a math or physics. I’ve so far gotten A’s in all my classes and am tied with a bunch of other people for 3rd in my class of 800; of course this will change, but I can almost certainly stay in the top 5%. I have yet to take the ACT or the SAT (I intend to take both).

I’d like to ask you all what reach schools, match schools, and safety schools would be. Since I’m very new to this and haven’t really had any friends or family go through the application process, I don’t really know where I would fall on the spectrum of competitiveness. Additionally, if there’s any advice you care to share, it’s much appreciated. Thank you all!

PROSPECTIVE COLLEGE LIST (feel free to suggest!)

U. Chicago
Yale
Stanford
Northwestern
Princeton
U. Pennsylvania
Harvard
Brown
Georgetown
UC Berkeley
Duke
UC San Diego
American University

I know this is a fairly long list, but I figured I should give you as much information up front as I can.

COURSELOAD
Gr9-
H. Algebra 2
H. Chemistry
English 9
POD (a mandatory course for freshmen)
Journalism 1
PE
Summer Community College: Psychology 1, Cultural Anthropology

Gr10-
H. Math Analysis
AP Biology
H. English 10
AP European History
Italian 1
PE

Gr11 (projected)
AP Calculus AB+BC
AP Physics C (M&EM)
AP English Language
AP U.S. History
Italian 2
AP Music Theory

Gr12 (projected)
AP Statistics
AP Environmental Science
AP English Literature
AP Government and Politics
Italian 3 (if offered and possible, AP Italian)
AP Computer Science Principles

SCORES
PSAT during Gr9: 1400
PSAT during Gr10: 1440

EXTRACURRICULARS:
Gr9-12 Long Term Strategic Planning (school governance) committee member
Gr9-12 Peer tutoring/paid peer tutoring
Gr9 Debate
-Clerk (officer, team somewhat defunct)
Gr9-12 California YMCA Youth and Government
-9: delegation Cabinet member (position abolished thereafter); statewide Forum (freshman program) Court Chief Justice
-10: member of Appellate Court program area UNLESS accepted into Supreme Court
-11: If accepted into Supreme Court, then that again + running for statewide Chief Justice, otherwise delegation office and Appellate Court
-12: Supreme Court, hopefully either Chief Justice or delegation President
Gr9-12 Moot Court Team
9: Member, won 8th/24 in argument and 11th/24 in justicing at the local tournament we hosted
10: Secretary, competing at a local competition we’re hosting and probably one at Princeton
11: Argumentation/argument development officer, competing locally and nationally
12: Team Captain, competing locally and nationally

2

Based on your expressed interests, these colleges – several of which you have already included on your tentative list – might be particularly suitable for you:

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/blog/top-lawyer-producer-schools-infographic/

3

I am all for challenging oneself, but of the colleges you listed nine are reaches. UCBerkeley would most likely be a high match (maybe?) but I’m not familiar enough with UCs to anoint it a safety. I would recommend adding more matches and safeties to your college list (25%+ acceptance rate)

4

What could I do to at least have a fighting chance at one of the top schools? Is it too late?

5

You are very early to start targeting specific colleges IMO. However, I can say that eleven of the thirteen schools you listed are pretty much reaches for anyone. These schools have very low acceptance rates and have to turn down many qualified candidates. I would seek to add more match/safety schools. Also run the net price calculator to see if schools appear affordable if that is an issue.

6

I would stop looking at college lists until next year and focus on ACT OR SAT prep over the summer and doing well in your courses and having fun in high school. I would stay off this site until next year.

7

Looks like a good start to your plans. Math and Physics are both incredibly difficult at UChicago (and many of the other schools on your list). Do you have any way to take a more difficult math course in 12th grade since you will complete Calc in 11th grade? AP Stats checks the box for a math class but having a college level math class through dual enrollment possibly would serve you better to be ready for the incredible rigor. My son took honors math his 1st year at UChicago and more than half the class dropped to a lower level before 1st quarter is over. They were all strong students but it is hard. Most of your list of schools are reaches and very expensive. Have you talked to your parents about how much they plan to spend for college? Safeties would probably be your instate schools which your counselor should have a good feel for which ones would be best. I think American and UC San Diego are the only possible matches on your list right now. You really need some scores though and a budget to really refine.

8

Thank you so much for the response! Actually, I’d like to take either Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, or Multivariable Calculus at the local community college if possible. Math is one of my strongest subjects, and I have been studying it on my own since 7th grade.

As far as a budget goes, I don’t really know quite yet, and my parents just want me to see what’s out there and what kinds of schools I would be interested in. I haven’t taken the SAT or ACT yet but (as stated above) received a 1440 on my most recent PSAT, which isn’t great but can probably be improved. I think Boston College, U. Washington, UVa, and William and Mary could also be added to the above list of schools.

How thin are the extracurriculars? I feel like that area is really lacking.

9

Buy a copy of Spivak and read through it. Don’t freak out if you can’t do any of the problems (Spivak is hard!) but it’s a good introduction to real (aka proof based, rigorous, and often involving the real numbers) math.

10

Princeton is very good for your law/poli sci interest, but you can’t double major there. UChicago would let you double major, but I think the combos you are contemplating would be difficult, really constraining when thrown into the mix with core requirements, and have very little payoff (intellectually or professionally). It might make more sense to pursue your side interest(s) through electives (rather than take on the requirements associated with a second major). Also, it’s hard to see how you’d know you want to be a math or physics major before you’ve taken any calculus or physics.

Too early to tell how competitive an applicant you will be. As acdchai has already indicated, in order to identify safeties, you need to know your scores and your finances. Your goal should be to find at least a couple of schools that you’re likely to get into, know you can afford, and would love to attend. Even if you end up with stellar stats, those schools should be ones where 40+% of the applicants are admitted and where your stats would put you in the top quartile of the class.

You should also ask your parents which schools they’d be willing to spend more for than a UC. If you’re pretty sure you want to go to law school, you may want to save money/avoid debt as an undergrad, to make law school easier to finance. It’ll be your law school rather than the college you attended that will affect your job opportunities. (Financial aid and/or merit aid may mean that some privates will be cheaper than the UCs, so research these policies).

Good luck with this. Intellectual ambition is great, but it’s not all about taking the most/hardest courses you can or getting into the hardest-to-get-into colleges. It’s about identifying/developing a coherent set of interests and pursuing them in a way that you find both satisfying and challenging. High school can be kind of misleading in this respect. So work on figuring out what you love and doing it well.

11

Assuming you can afford/your parents are willing to pay OOS tuition, University of Washington is a great example of a safety school for a student with stellar stats. It was on my bio-loving child’s long short list, but it would also be an excellent choice for someone who is interested in law and American politics. The adults I know (for all different reasons and in different fields) who went to UW all came out well-educated, lifelong learner types who are highly competent at their jobs and who still had time/personality to develop fairly serious side interests. And they’re nice, generally happy, people. The UW poli sci major I know was admitted to a number of top PhD programs and would have been equally competitive as a law school applicant.

As you move through this insane process (and focusing so early can make it crazier), it’s important to remember that there are lots of great choices and outcomes out there. It’s not hard for most seniors to name their dream schools (often without knowing much about them – e.g. you can’t double major at Princeton). What takes more effort is finding the schools you personally would love, even if they aren’t ones the rest of your peers dream of. Another place you might look at wrt your law/politics interests is Syracuse. Personally, given your political science interests (my field), I’d find their Maxwell School a much more interesting choice than American University. One way to identify programs/schools that might be great choices is to look at course offerings/faculty research in your areas of interest as well as study abroad and internship programs. It can also go the other way – you read about something exciting in your field(s) of interest, and then look up where the work is being done.

Re extracurriculars. Go for quality over quantity, experiment, do things that you (might) actually love and learn from, and think outside the (HS) box. Work on a campaign, write a blog for kids that covers SCOTUS, or do an independent study on comparative constitutional law. In other words, try making your own opportunities rather than climbing whatever ladder is put in front of you. From an admissions standpoint, the challenge is to stand out by doing something interesting, different, and worthwhile. From a personal growth perspective, the goal is to find out what you like to do, what you’re good at, and what brings meaning to your life. That’s a lifelong project, of course, but it helps at this stage to keep your eyes on the prize rather than just climb into the hamsterwheel and make it spin as fast as you can.

12

I’m new to this forum and a California HS sophomore just beginning to do preliminary college research. Obviously, this could change after high school, but my passion is for appellate law. I would likely major in political science, and maybe double in that with a math or physics. I’ve so far gotten A’s in all my classes and am tied with a bunch of other people for 3rd in my class of 800; of course this will change, but I can almost certainly stay in the top 5%. I have yet to take the ACT or the SAT (I intend to take both).

I’d like to ask you all what reach schools, match schools, and safety schools would be. Since I’m very new to this and haven’t really had any friends or family go through the application process, I don’t really know where I would fall on the spectrum of competitiveness. Additionally, if there’s any advice you care to share, it’s much appreciated. Thank you all!

For the moment, UChicago is at the top of my list due to what it sounds like the school social and academics culture is like. Please, please feel free to elaborate on that with your experiences.

PROSPECTIVE COLLEGE LIST (feel free to suggest!)
U. Chicago
Yale
Stanford
Northwestern
Princeton
U. Pennsylvania
Harvard
Brown
Georgetown
UC Berkeley
Duke
UC San Diego
American University

Anything from Gr11-12 is prospective, but I tried to project out as best I could to give you a full picture.

COURSELOAD
Gr9-
H. Algebra 2
H. Chemistry
English 9
POD (a mandatory course for freshmen)
Journalism 1
PE
Summer Community College: Psychology 1, Cultural Anthropology

Gr10-
H. Math Analysis
AP Biology
H. English 10
AP European History
Italian 1
PE

Gr11 (projected)
AP Calculus AB+BC
AP Physics C (M&EM)
AP English Language
AP U.S. History
Italian 2
AP Music Theory

Gr12 (projected)
AP Statistics
AP Environmental Science
AP English Literature
AP Government and Politics
Italian 3 (if offered and possible, AP Italian)
AP Computer Science Principles

SCORES
PSAT during Gr9: 1400
PSAT during Gr10: 1440

EXTRACURRICULARS:
Gr9-12 Long Term Strategic Planning (school governance) committee member
Gr9-12 Peer tutoring/paid peer tutoring
Gr9 Debate
-Clerk (officer, team somewhat defunct)
Gr9-12 California YMCA Youth and Government
-9: delegation Cabinet member (position abolished thereafter); statewide Forum (freshman program) Court Chief Justice
-10: member of Appellate Court program area UNLESS accepted into Supreme Court
-11: If accepted into Supreme Court, then that again + running for statewide Chief Justice, otherwise delegation office
-12: Supreme Court, hopefully either Chief Justice or delegation President
Gr9-12 Moot Court Team
9: Member, won 8th/24 in argument and 11th/24 in justicing at the local tournament we hosted
10: Secretary, competing at a local competition we’re hosting and probably one at Princeton
11: Argumentation/argument development officer, competing locally and nationally
12: Team Captain, competing locally and nationally

13

Thank you very much, exacademic! I think especially for appellate law, where there aren’t really many opportunities at the high school (or even undergrad, by the looks of it) level, it might be necessary for me to look outside the box. I’m not sure if this happens, but would interning in an appellate firm if I can find one help? Do you think I may have an outside shot at UChicago if most things go well over the next two years?

14

Do you live near an appeals court? If so, that might be a place to start – observing, seeing if there are internship or volunteer opportunities, and (if not) maybe writing about your observations. State appeals courts would work as well as federal from this POV. Another possibility would be to reach out to advocacy groups that routinely file amicus briefs. I don’t think you’d have much luck with law firms. Appellate work is typically a plum job for experienced lawyers with subject matter expertise. There isn’t the same kind of research/administrative work
that’s involved with putting together the facts for a trial – and that’s where there’s more space for paralegal involvement. But government and nonprofits may be sufficiently short of cash and/or manpower that you might find someone who’d be glad to put you to work filing, xeroxing, tracking down cases, etc. If so, what you’ll be doing is essentially secretarial work, but it’d give you an interesting vantage point on part of the process.

Re having a shot at UChicago. I never predict because there are too many unknowns and, with U of C, essays and teacher recommendations matter a lot – not just stats. So all I can really say is that nothing you’ve written leads me to believe that you don’t have a shot at admission. FWIW, I think U of C values intellectual engagement/independence/intensity more than “leadership” or ECs and that that focus differentiates it (wrt admissions, at least) from most other elite colleges in the US. One thing that means is that doing what you want to do (given your pre-existing nerdy interests, LOL!) probably makes you a stronger candidate than doing what everyone thinks you need to do (e.g. maximize the number of AP courses you take). Also, being able to teach yourself is a really important skill for success in college – especially at a place like Chicago where standards are high and profs are chosen more for their cutting-edge research than for their teaching ability.

15

Thank you so much! Part of why UChicago is one of the two schools I’m most interested in at this moment is that it seems to be focused on academia, learning for the love of learning. While I don’t plan on being a professor anytime soon, I’d love to do it after my career, and I will likely want to do research during my undergrad years. I also think that the “quirkiness” might be a good fit for me, depending on what that entails. Plus, Chicago (being a big city with federal courts too) seems like a great place as far as extracurriculars and internships go, and they even have a moot court team!

As far as the legal aspect of my semi-existent “stats” go, do you think where I’m at now would be a good base? I’d also like to interview in 11th grade for one of the spaces on the Youth and Government governing Board, which would probably burnish my future applications. Also, if I may, do you (exacademic) have any background in law?

Thank you (and everyone else) for the help and taking the time to advise someone with a while to go before I even start formally applying!

16

Have you checked with your HS counselor about the projected availability of Italian classes at your high school?

17

Even with your parents saying to look everywhere and essentially don’t worry about $ - you really need to get a better feel for what they can/will pay for. In the short time I’ve been on here, I’ve lost track of the number of students who start out with that thought process, only to fall in love with a school and find out their parents can’t swing it. And then they have to totally switch gears to look for a school that offers need or merit aid. Do yourself and your family a favor and run the NPC for a couple of your top schools with your parents. Get them to nod their heads and say yes, they really can afford to pay the EFC NOW, before you get too far into it. You have the potential to have a lot of really great options, even if you need aid. Much better to know the score financially now than senior year.

18

Nice college list, early stats, ambition. Since you are in California I would definitely add UCLA to your list. USC ranks hgh as well.

19

@siliconvalleymom I haven’t checked with her quite yet. I will definitely be able to go up to Italian 3, but if AP is offered my senior year (the teacher has expressed an interest in starting the class) I might be able to take it, though I might have to do an independent study kind of thing — I’ll be talking with her about that in the next couple of weeks.

Generally speaking, would only doing one year of Journalism harm my prospective applications? What about only 3 years of a language? Would taking AP if offered eliminate that issue?

Are there any other gaping holes in my resume to date (and the one I’m projecting into the future), or even small ones that I should work to patch up?

Thank you all and happy 2017!