<p>one last point to add to Marian's excellent SAT subject test topic. Beginning with the class of 2010 the college board is instituting score choice reporting so that there is less risk of taking for example Bio subject test as a freshman and having a less than stellar result.</p>
<p>hmm ... 8th or 9th grade ... our advice to our kids went something like this ...</p>
<p>1) Take as hard courses as you can and want to as long you'll do "well" in them (B or better)
2) Read!
3) Find stuff that fulfills you and stay busy ... sports, arts, volunteering ... don't care ... just get busy
4) Keep your academic options open as long as possible
5) Have fun!
6) Don't worry about the college stuff for a couple more years</p>
<p>Marian - great post. One other thing I might add is try to get all of testing done by end of Junior year.</p>
<p>Pay attention when you get the 9th or 10th grade PSAT scores, even though it "doesn't count." Figure out what, if anything, your child needs help in. After having really strong PSAT scores in 10th grade, we sent Son to an expensive test prep school, thinking that they could help him bump up to NMSF status. What we didn't pay attention to is that his verbal scores were fantastic and math was weak. Using the "strategies" he learned at the test prep place, his math went up a bit and his verbal took a nosedive. We were able to figure this out and fix it by the time March SATs rolled around, but too late for National Merit stuff.</p>
<p>missypie: "Anyway, here is what I didn't know until the summer after Son's junior year: There are colleges that only consider UNWEIGHTED averages for admissions; some consider weighted averages for admission but unweighted for merit aid.</p>
<p>My son will have taken 11 heavily weighted AP classes by the time all is said and done. His unweighted GPA (and perhaps even his weighted GPA) would have been much better with fewer AP classes. They did NOT tell us this at school."</p>
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<p>Rachacha: "Big bump on that!! My D is in the same boat - lots of weighted APs, but unweighted they only look so-so, since our HS does not grade inflate at all, a college course is a college course! Even with the weight the ranking took a hit, some AP-capable students that did not take the courses are ranked above her (perhaps their parents already knew the lesson!) Hopefully schools will look past that and see the other things like National Merit status and test scores, for both of our sakes...I'll know better for the 8th grader!"</p>
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<p>Ditto the class ranking mess. My d will have taken 12 H/AP classes and her good friend will have taken 5 (1- sophomore year; 3 - junior year; back to 1 senior year) and yet her class rank is higher. I don't know that d would have done differently or that we would have encouraged her to do differently, yet the class ranking "rankles" - LOL.</p>
<p>D did take her SAT II in Bio at the end of her freshman year. She had an excellent teacher for H biology and d managed to score a 710. She was really pleased that she took the bio at the end of freshman year as junior year testing starts to seem never ending.</p>
<p>As others have said, if testing can be complete before senior year then :). My d is so glad that part of the process is over.</p>
<p>question for the people (ignatius, missypie, maybe others) who are saying "I'll know better for next time" it sounds like you are suggesting taking a less rigorous courseload to maximize unweighted gpa? I can see this as being a good strategy for the case of the Texas 10% admissions issue, and maybe for some other admissions goals, but we are taking the tactic in our family to not play the admissions game and follow interests in course selections etc for learning growth and not to maximize the package. I am not putting down others choices so please don't take it that way. For example, my kids go to a school with grade deflation where they certainly would appear more perfect at a less challenging public school. They aslo both try to get teachers who are notoriously hard graders but who are wonderful teachers. I realize this will make them less competitive in their college acceptances, but I think it will make them happier people in general and give them a good baseline for college work. Not so much has this affected younger D yet as she is just entering high school, but she understands the benefits she got from more challenging teachers during middle school and can see that there is more than looking for the highest result. I'm not talking about taking courses above your ability where you have a more difficult time to succeed, and our school is very conservative in not allowing kids to overextend and requires application to all higher level classes.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>jackief - I understand that ranking also affects scholarship money. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to watch how this plays out for d, as she did take the most rigorous course load and unweighted hurts her rather than helps.</p>
<p>Again I do not necessarily think that a decision to do less would have made here. However, it is hard to watch students take an easier route and be ranked higher. </p>
<p>I'm going on the assumption that it will all work out in the end.</p>
<p>ignatius- I agree. Yes I know this will affect scholarships also, thanks for the reminder. Our school doesn't rank (which is a very good thing as it is a very small school and attracts top kids from many area communities) but the honor roll is unweighted and some of the kids have made a fuss about that. </p>
<p>Perhaps a corollary to my "middle school is practice, high school is real" statement will be something similar pertaining to undergrad/grad. I know my older D is probably headed to grad school, and if she ends up exceptionally well prepared at a "lesser" undergrad because of her rigorous HS, I do expect it will all work out in the end. </p>
<p>But I think I'll be quiet now as mention of grad school has no place on a thread about 8th/9th graders :)</p>
<p>With my next kids, I will not follow a teacher's or GCs advice to take, for example, an AP instead of a regular science course, if the child has no particular interest or ability in science. It was insanity to have my son in AP Bio, esp. with the reputation of the teacher (of which we weren't aware at the time.) So instead of taking a regular science elective junior year and getting an easy A, he struggled all of last year to PASS AP Bio. A lot of the kids have trouble with Pre-AP Chem in 10th grade (esp. with one of the teachers.) If my 10th grader isn't getting at least a low A by the deadline to drop down to the regular class, she's dropping down.</p>
<p>Our district really pushes AP classes. When the kids are in 5th grade, they give you a chart of what your kid needs to take in 6th, 7th and 8th grade so they can take a lot of APs in HS. It's certainly nice to be aware of that as an option, but they act like it's a necessity for all the bright kids.</p>
<p>I think the many differing viewpoints on gpa/rank point out that there is no one right way to select courses. However, going into 9th grade, you and your child must know how things work at your particular school, and if necessary strategize to make things work for you. Your strategy will depend on your goals, just make sure you understand the way GPA/rank is calculated at your school. For example, my D has a friend whose parents decided that she would not take a certain honors level course as a freshmen. We have a S who graduated from the same school, so I'm familiar with the system. I told the parents that by not taking this one course, their D will have zero chance of being in the top 10% of the class (it's a very quirky way of calculating GPA and a small class). They say that's OK. I hope they feel that way four years from now. The girl is capable of doing the work in the class, but they've decided it's not of interest/too much additional work. Realize that decisions in freshman year can affect you down the line and plan accordingly. However, don't obsess about it. It is true that sometimes people with a less rigorous courseload can be ranked higher, but I think adcoms can look at a school profile and sort things out.</p>
<p>prefect- I think that is sound advice. Know how your own school system works and plan accordingly.</p>
<p>missypie- our school sounds the exact opposite of yours, they dissuade kids from overloading on honors/aps so not to burn out and must individually approve each instance of 3 or more such classes. I think it is good in that it doesn't contribute to the arms race of high stressed kids, and if the schools limit it it shouldn't detract in admissions, but my older D is getting frustrated by not being able to do everything she wants to do.</p>
<p>I agree that there is no right or wrong way to select courses. What parents need is knowledge, about high school and college, so they aren't led down a path of too hard or too easy courses. Many high schools are very large and have way too few GCs (e.g. 1 per 600). They are trying to give the advice that they think will best serve the most kids.</p>
<p>Jackief, my son has friends who will have taken 15 AP classes by the time they graduate. This is a suburban public, not a magnet or anything.</p>
<p>Missypie, some of the public schools that I am familiar with in the "top" districts in our state offer many APs as does yours. A cousin's kid, some years ago, took AP bio in the early part of HS (freshman or soph, I no longer remember) without ever taking the regular course at one of these schools. I think that it is right to evaluate all relevant factors, eg child's interest in science, before signing up for every available AP in science. If the other classes are not challenging, I would see it as a problem, but this is not always the case.</p>
<p>Additionally, I think getting along with the teacher is important, and if a less rigorous course will suffice when the other option is not good, it is ok. Sometimes the teacher is quick enough to realize that the placement is not based solely on ability and will modify the work to give the student extra (I have seen this happen.) </p>
<p>In many instances, a student can sign up for the AP exam, even without taking the course if there is some reason that the student wants to get the credit or has a particular interest in the subject, although payment for the exam would likely be the student's responsibility. Actually, according to some posters on these boards, many students pay for the test regardless of whether they took the course in school.</p>
<p>Anothermom, I'd be surprised if 5% of the students at our HS even know you can take an AP exam without taking the underlying class.</p>
<p>General point in regard to this discussion - I never interfere or had any input into my D's class selection. If I did, I believe that overall outcome would have suffered. She was totally responsible for her grades, we have helped her only when she asked us. We had no idea what she should take, it is student's personal choice.</p>
<p>I was just talking to parents whose freshman son is playing football and is in two choirs. That takes up 4 of his 8 classes. The 14 year old didn't realize that his schedule left no room for a foreign language, so he is doing that online. If the parents had not gotten involved, the kid would have a great time in school with his sport and his choirs, but would come up short for most schools because of no foreign language. I really don't think 14 year olds should be allowed to make mistakes like that.</p>
<p>What? Football is a class in Texas? Isn't that where you live? My son played football all the way through high school and was in the select choir. Football met every day after school and Saturday mornings for 3 hours each time and choir was Sundays from 5-6:30. School is a place where he took math, sciences, foreign language, history, English, and maybe one or two "fun" classes such as a study hall, a cooking class, or a business/computer class.</p>
<p>Anothermom, I'd be surprised if 5% of the students at our HS even know you can take an AP exam without taking the underlying class</p>
<p>Yes, Missiepie, that one caught me and DS1 by surprize. </p>
<p>Other point of information: If your child is leaving school for study abroad, make sure you have a written agreement as to how the other school's grades will transfer to the home school : I realize that does not affect everyone, but it is really affecting DS1 as far as ranking goes. It was particularly in shock to have DS1 told - upon his return from France - that the school would have weighed his grades from SYA if he had taken AP exams regardless of the AP Score (Silly policy and it is still under appeal). His ranking would have been higher and his eligibility for scholarship monies clearer to some schools.</p>
<p>On the issue of take the hardest classes possible: Our school tries to convince kids to take 'less' APs so that - I believe - a greater number of the overall student body is enrolled in an AP class - even one class - without the need for additional sections of AP. So, some kids are - by virtue of schedule issues, or guidance suggestions - steered away from harder coursework when they are perfectly capable of completing it.</p>
<p>Why do you think Texas football teams are so good? Why do you think we win national cheer and drill team competitons? At our HS, all sports, cheer, drill team and marching band are not only a class, they are two classes. (We have an A-B blocked schedules and they are "double blocked" so they meet every day.) In addition, these groups show up between 6 and 7 in the morning, so they have in the neighborhood of 2 1/2 hours (or more) of their sport/activity every day. </p>
<p>If my daughter stays in drill team, a full 1/4 of her high school credits will be in drill team! This actually weighs down the GPA of lots of the kids, because those doubleblocked classes are "regular" (unweighted) credits. If someone is really gunning to be Val or Sal or be in the Top 20 (a distinction in our school), you often see them drop their sport or activity junior or senior year so they can take AP classes instead.</p>