How important is the weighted GPA and what is rigor?

Parents Forum
1

<p>So you guys have been so helpful on my "Spanish or Algebra" question, that I think I want to ask another one.</p>

<p>How important is the weighted GPA vs. the unweighted GPA?</p>

<p>At my son's high school, it seems sort of weird to me which classes have weighted options and which don't. For example, there's an honors chorus class, which carries an extra point, an honors health class, and IB classes in film (just examples), but there aren't honors classes in certain foreign languages (including Arabic, which my son wants to take).</p>

<p>For example, let's say my kid the following schedule for 9th, and gets straight A's. (I'm making these up, not saying either is what my kid will actually take, or bragging, just making the math easy for me by picking round numbers)</p>

<p>Honors English 9
Honors US History
Honors Geometry
Honors Earth Science
Honors Spanish
Honors Chorus
1/2 year PE/ half year honors Health</p>

<p>He'll have a weighted GPA or 4.93.</p>

<p>In contrast if he takes</p>

<p>Honors English 9
AP US history
Honors Geometry
Honors Earth Science
Arabic (no honors option)
Computer Science (no honors option)
Creative writing (no honors option)</p>

<p>and gets straight A's he'll have 4.57, even though to my uneducated eye the latter seems like a harder schedule. Will colleges actually look down on because he's got the lower GPA? Or do they really just look at the unweighted which would be identical.</p>

<p>Also, if you've got classes that are considered easier or less rigorous but you've got to take them, PE and whatnot, is it better to take them Freshman/Sophomore year so that your junior and senior year look super rigorous or is it fine to leave PE until junior or senior year so that your kid can have one less period of homework when he's dealing with SAT prep, and APs and college essays?</p>

2

<p>Colleges that use grades or GPA are likely to either recalculate GPA with their own weighting formula, or holistically look at transcripts, rather than use the high school’s notion of weighted GPA, which differs at different high schools.</p>

<p>The high school’s notion of weighted GPA can indirectly come into play if it is used by the high school to determine class rank, and class rank is used by the college applied to.</p>

3

<p>Some colleges we’ve heard about in info sessions seem to take every class and assign their own weighting to it rather than using whatever the hs is using, since different hs will have different weighting schemes. As far as the less rigorous classes, some schools require things like PE every year. </p>

<p>IMHO the best plan seems to be to take the level of class the student will be challenged (but not overwhelmed) in, take some things which are fun/interest (chorus, arabic), and let the chips fall where they may. Getting overly involved in engineering a GPA/college app doesn’t leave the kid any room to find his/her own path.</p>

<p>xposted with ucb :)</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>They don’t judge the rigor of specific years, just the classes you took overall.</p>

<p>Concerning your two hypothetical class schedules, don’t freak out about substituting one non-honors class for a honors class. Good schools don’t care about this (though, a state school which is entirely stats-based might.) A typical question is someone asking about taking band (which is typically not an AP class) versus an AP class and the effect on admission. The advice is always that it’s better to demonstrate a genuine interest than to worry about another tick on the weighted GPA meter. Taking Arabic might look interesting to a college admissions staff.</p>

<p>That said, some of these classes are different in rigor. Honors US History may be a better class than creative writing. Find out if these classes are actually intensive or whether they actually are easier.</p>

5

<p>If there were easy answers CC wouldn’t exist. At our school the first schedule is probably somewhat better in the long run because rank is determined by the GPA. We don’t have a superheavy weighting though so my younger son was better off getting A+s in orchestra than taking an AP course and getting a B+. OTOH grades on the transcript all appeared unweighted so an admissions officer scanning the transcript or putting the grades into their own system would probably prefer the second schedule. </p>

<p>That said, if the kid thinks they are interested in computer science, and it’s offered at the high school, it’s better to take it so that you have evidence of your interest. You might also be able to get summer jobs or volunteer activities from whatever you learn in that course. My kids both got dinged because Latin didn’t have an honors option for sophomores, but the other languages with more sections did. It might have cost them a place or two in rank, but not so much it made any difference in their college options, I don’t think.</p>

<p>My kids took the courses they wanted to take at the level they wanted to take for the most part. Well with a little nudging when I thought they were trying to take it too easy, but I didn’t make them take all AP courses either.</p>

<p>A lot is about context - it really depends on what the normal number of AP or honors course kids take that apply to the sort of colleges you think are appropriate for your kid.</p>

6

<p>There are a bunch of colleges who only count the 5 academic subjects in the GPA…and then they unweight it to a 4.0 scale…</p>

<p>No rhyme or reason…depends on the college…</p>

<p>2nd schedule is obviously more academic and rigorous but, again, it all depends on the school the student is applying to…</p>

<p>generally, large publics do not do anything but take the transcript GPA…but there are exceptions.</p>

7

<p>Colleges will calculate their own likely unweighted gpa for academic subjects (as they choose them). Don’t worry about this at all. Of course it can make a difference in class rankings in your HS but again, don’t obsess about where your kid ranks.</p>

<p>Course rigor. Colleges recognize that different HS’s offer different levels of course rigor. They will ask the school how rigorous your child’s courses were compared to those available. This levels the playing field between schools a bit. So if a HS doesn’t offer APs and therefore a student couldn’t take them they are not penalized. Likewise if a HS offers tons of APs and a student takes very few of them that means they were not taking advantage of the rigorous courses available to them. Likewise if Honors versions are available it matters if a student took advantage of that. This doesn’t mean a kid has to take every course at the highest level offered- eg if s/he is bad at math s/he should take the course where s/he will learn the most. </p>

<p>When helping your child plan HS classes keep in mind the college prep aspects but more imortantly the learning for your child. Often 4 years’ worth (including middle school) of one foreign language is expected. It can be just as easy to get an A in an AP/Honors class so don’t avoid them in hopes of a better gpa. Have your child reach whenever practical but let them be in the appropriate class so they max out on leraning the skills/material. Remember HS is not just to get the best resume for college, it is meant to be lived and enjoyed for itself.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>The huge state university systems in California (UC and CSU) recalculate weighted GPAs using their own method (the data entry of courses and grades is done by the student on the application), rather than trusting high school weighted GPAs (there are some really strange weighting methods at high schools which can result in weighted GPAs > 5.0).</p>

<p>[CSUMentor</a> - Plan for College - High School Students - GPA Calculator](<a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>Cal State Apply | CSU)</p>

<p>The University of Florida also recalculates high school GPAs:</p>

<p>[Ask</a> UF – How will UF compute my high school GPA?](<a href=“http://www.questions.ufl.edu/admissions/freshman/15/]Ask”>http://www.questions.ufl.edu/admissions/freshman/15/)</p>

<p>Texas public universities do not used GPA; they use class rank instead. This means that the high school’s notion of weighted GPA, if used to determine class rank, matters, but only in comparison to other students at the same high school.</p>

9

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

<p>Just to be clear, he’ll pick his classes based on his interests and abilities not just the potential for college admissions. I just asked because I was curious.</p>

10

<p>Just curious, unless you’re in Dearborn, MI where else can you find high schools teaching Arabic? :). DD2 fell off her chair when I mentioned AP Health and AP Choir…</p>

<p>DD2 reports the ultimate in AP/IB… AP/IB Recess. No kidding…</p>

11

<p>It’s honors health and chorus, but they’re weighted the same as AP.</p>

<p>We’re in the DC region. There are public high schools in MD, DC and VA that offer Arabic. Is it really that uncommon elsewhere?</p>

12

<p>D2 came from a school which didn’t weight, and then switched to a school in 11th grade which did. Yes, colleges may do their own weighting. BUT when it comes to GC’s letter of recommendation, GC will check off if your kid is top 1%, 5%, 10% and such, that’s based on WGPA. If your kid is aiming for top tier schools then you would want your GC to check off on top 5% on the LOR.</p>

13

<p>How does the class rank play out in schools of different competitiveness? My son’s high school (assuming he goes to the local neighborhood school) is highly ranked. Average SAT’s around 1750 (compared to 1500 nationwide), and about 70% of kids graduate with college credit through AP. On one hand, I’m thrilled my kid will get such a great education. On the other hand, I can’t imagine he’ll hit the top 10%, much less 5. There are too many kids taking BC calc in 10th grade, and getting full IB diplomas, for my more average kid to compete.</p>

14

<p>Your kid will be read (compared) relative to students from his school. Admission representative from each school should be familiar with your kid’s school. To be very honest, unless your kid’s school is a feeder school for those top tier schools, to be top 10% is very hard to compete. If your kid’s school has Naviance then you could see what’s his chance of getting into colleges he is interested in.</p>

15

<p>I’m hoping for IB/AP lunch period and special IB/AP buses :). </p>

<p>I was surprised for Arabic, actually. DD1 will be taking it in college (possibly minoring in Arabic Studies - architecture major) but here in fly-over country there’s often only Spanish & French. Our very good (#1-#2 in state) and super large (4K+) public school offers Latin, Japanese, German, French, and of course Spanish but not Arabic.</p>

16

<p>The fact that Arabic is rare at the high school level, but also is an official UN language and considered a strategic language means that the Arabic can potentially be something of a hook or tip factor for college admissions, assuming your son does well in the class and opts to continue his studies throughout high school. </p>

<p>In other words, it may give him something that makes him stand out from other applicants.</p>

<p>There’s no point in signing up for a class in the hope that such a future college hook will materialize – after all, your son may find the course difficult and opt to switch to a different language his sophomore year. </p>

<p>I’m just pointing out the flaw in the logic that a student should follow a certain path in order to maximize college chances; there are benefits to getting off the beaten path as well.</p>

17

<p>In our case weighted GPA is only for class ranking comes senior year.
Both GPAs can be reported to colleges (each HS is different here) but top school recalculate anyway. In our school the kids are asked witch GPA they want to be reported.
Class rigor? It is a look at what was offered compared to what the kid took. GC check this box but I think that top colleges will have a close look at this anyway.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your kid! I found CC when my oldest was in 6th grade I believe, and have found an invaluable advice here (along with some lynching, but it comes with the process :wink: The same kid is a junior right now and college applications are just around the corner. SCARY!
Let me know if I can be of any help!</p>

18

<p>A lot of high school don’t weight grades too so that is why most colleges use their own GPA formula. Our school actually weights their “rank” by giving extra points or whatever to taking honors/AP classes so if you go through high school without taking any honors or AP classes, you can’t graduate in the top 50% or so of the class. Personally I think that is a more accurate way to portray the rigor of a schedule vs weighting grades. Also, keep in mind that if you take 3 AP’s and one honors class each year vs taking 4 AP classes, that will still be considered a rigorous schedule.</p>

<p>Also, you very much should consider taking high school classes that will favor college admissions. Yes, he wants to take some classes that are interesting, like his Arabic, but he does need to take 4 years of math, science, social studies and English if he is considering “better” colleges, not even top schools, just “better” schools. The way down the list schools that admit everyone don’t really care all that much but for the rest of the schools, they still want to see that background in high school.</p>

19

<p>^The better school will prefer to see four years of a language in addition to all those other 4 years, but the OP knows that. :)</p>

20

<p>UC: thanks for the post…I wasn’t taking those publics into consideration in my post…more like the publics that the average student (not necessarily on CC) might apply to (think Penn State, Indiana etc level) away from the Cal or Florida system…</p>