Advice for awesome SAT/very good GPA?

Parents Forum
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<p>First of all, thank you all for the knowledge and experience you are sharing! We are learning a lot.</p>

<p>High School Junior scored 228 PSAT/1560 old SAT (800 Math/760 Reading)/2370 new SAT (780 Math/800 writing/790 reading), ~3.6/4.41 GPA, will miss the cut for top 10% of his class on GPA at magnet high school. All classes this year were AP or honors, including Calculus AB, Honors Physics, AP Economics,etc....plans on taking 9 AP classes in senior year. Freshman and Sophomore year had a mixture of A's and B's, Junior year has had only 1 B on report card, remainder all A's. Is not an athlete, no music background. </p>

<p>My child is somewhat non-commital about most things, but has some interest in engineering. It would be a stretch to say that an engineering career is a burning desire. But, there is zero interest in any other career. Took a college class in engineering last summer and is taking another this summer.</p>

<p>EC includes debate team, volunteering at nursing home, charity events, church, etc. Several hundred hours of documented volunteer work.</p>

<p>My son associates with the math magnets at his school, who seem to be a strong motivating factor, but he is in the Communications Arts high school program.</p>

<p>Other factors: We are optimistic that he will be a NMS finalist, which opens a few scholarship opportunities, for example at Florida. We have ~40K for him for college. Could add some to that over his college career, but it would be extrmely difficult.</p>

<p>We are not a racial minority and would not qualify for needs-based assistance. No legacy.</p>

<p>It appears most top private schools are 40k per year or more for tuition, room and board, etc., which is way out of our league, financially, unless he were to receive substantial assistance.</p>

<p>Questions:</p>

<p>Does he qualify for admission and/or scholarships at a top rated engineering university? What public universities would be good for him? </p>

<p>What advice would you give if your student had these credentials?</p>

<p>Where would you recommend applying?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance,</p>

<p>~gnusasaurus</p>

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<p>I'm sure other posters will give advice on specific colleges for you and your son to consider. But one thing to keep in mind is, if he is not totally sure about engineering but has some interest, look for schools which are strong in both engineering and other fields, rather than purely technical schools. That way, if his interests change, he will be in a school where he can pursue other fields. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Agree with the above. Pure technical schools seem quite risky where little enthusiasm for the field has been exhibited to date.</p>

<p>One place that came to mind specifically was U Rochester. It offers engineering as well as Arts & Sciences, and traditionally has been considered generous with financial aid. I'm sure there are other schools that fit this profile.</p>

<p>Then of course there are state schools. Some give reduced tuition for NMS finalists, even from out of state.</p>

<p>FWIW, my oldest was in a quite similar situation and found that the very, very top schools did have a problem with her grades. She wound up looking a tier down, where she had success. (Fortunately these were the schools that interested her more anyway). But she did not apply to any engineering colleges.</p>

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<p>The usual suggestions for this "category" of student are schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, etc. Your conundrum is an obvious one - very top engineering schools, if and when they offer merit aid, might have stronger candidates for it. And as you don't qualify for need-based aid (I presume your income is over $150k a year), it is quite reasonable for the need-based aid schools to assume you could afford well over $10k a year, either from past savings or future earnings (in the form of loans).</p>

<p>So, I would look at the next tier down from the top. Engineering is tough, though - most undergrads have to work very hard at it, and have to do so from day one - I wouldn't recommend it to any student only s/he thought s/he was fully committed.</p>

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<p>To continue a line of thought, your son needs to go to a school where there are other options than engineering. The combniation of no burning desire with no interest in any other major even suggests that a Gap Year might seriously be in order. As a former engineering student who was invited by the Dean to find another major, I can attest that people don't get through engineering school in decent shape unless they have both something of a passion AND a pretty high level of sustained ability. (The third semester of math after first-year calculus was my metaphorical Pickett's Charge though there were other red and orange lights on the command console as well.)</p>

<p>All that said, the number of AP's <em>might</em> compensate for the GPA factor.</p>

<p>However, I'd given his situation, I'd look at U/Arizona, where his NMS status could get him a very nice ride.</p>

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<p>I agree that if this young man isn't sure about engineering, he should choose a school where other options can be available to him. On the other hand....if he does intend to major in engineering, he will have precious little time to "explore" other options as the course of study in engineering is a very rigorous one with very very few elective subjects. Any "exploration" could make his course of study longer than four years.</p>

<p>I would think that a school like Lafayette (good liberal arts, great engineering) would be very happy to have such a student, and possibly with some merit aid as well.</p>

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<p>Take a look at Case - engineering plus other stuff plus merit aid. If your son's hs grades by the semester, if there is any way way he could scrape his way into the top 10% with all A's the first semester of senior year he should go for it - Case's merit aid is based on GPA and SAT's, and was higher if both were good. 9 AP's is a pretty heavy load to manage!</p>

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<p>Your son's stats would have made him likely for the DSA merit award at Tulane (v good engineering school and has all the Arts&Sciences, Business etc. programs if he changes his mind). This award is given to a substantial % of their top applicants and requires no special app. It does seem to enhance chances if one applies EA (non-binding, so why not?) Also, if he can come up with an idea, Tulane awards a smaller number (100, I think) DHS merit awards (full tuition). This one requires a special app and project but it sure pays off.</p>

<p>My S got the DSA with lesser SATs than your S, slightly higher GPAs, and also just out of the top 10%.</p>

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<p>Rice, UT austin, UT dallas, SMU, Uni. of Tulsa, Vanderbilt.</p>

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<p>Many thanks to all of you for your excellent advice!</p>

<p>I have compiled a very nice list of schools to add to our research list.</p>

<p>We are making our second visit to the U of Florida in July and will be visiting several other colleges for the first time this summer, including Tulane, Carnegie Mellon, and probably some of those that we have now added to our research list. We like U of Florida for several reasons, including ability to change major(if necesssary), hopeful NMS finalist status, plus it will be close to where we will be living then. We are moving to Tampa when my son graduates high school, but currently live in Maryland.</p>

<p>My son has set a personal goal to get into the top 10% of his class. All A's on this upcoming report card (which he is sure he has) and all A's on his first semester senior year report card would just barely get him there. He is a great and highly motivated student who has hit his stride in his junior year. He just is unsure of what he wants to do for a career, so that is impacting his college search. </p>

<p>We think he is pretty well rounded with an excellent SAT, Very good GPA, high number of Honors and AP classes, combination of excelling in the Commications Arts program and taking hard courses, EC's, etc. I wish I had been more like him at that age! </p>

<p>Again, thank you to all for your advice. Good luck with your students in their search. Additional input or suggestions are welcome!</p>

<p>~gnusasaurus</p>

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<p>gnusasuarus (great handle, btw)
Best wishes to your son. Mine was also outside the top 10% (and from a hs no one has heard of), but will be attending UChicago this fall. If he makes the most of essays and interviews to back up his SAT's, he should have many options next spring.</p>

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<p>gnusasaurus,</p>

<p>If you son's school is a well known magnet like Stuyvesant or similar, being 11th% probably not a huge liability. And you never know, he could work his way into top 10% with continued improved performance.</p>

<p>I would just suggest you look at the good merit aid schools outside your region-- so your geography would also work in his favor. Also, there may be "science" schools looking for liberal arts kids (Johns Hopkins comes to mind, or CMU, or other similar schools.) At places like this he could apply as a prospective liberal arts student but have excellent science available too if that direction captivated him later.</p>

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<p>With that additional history, he should look at all the SEC schools plus Clemson and the Univ of Miami. It sounds as if he will benefit from a lager school, because of abundance of majors, particularly if he is becoming more self-motivated, and you aren't overly concerned about his getting lost at a big school. Each of the SEC schools has a specialty plus a full range of general majors, and most of them have some sort of honors program with tuition benefits to high stat, out of state students. BUT, if you have Fla residency by then, and he meets the criteria, you may not be able to beat their program.</p>

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<p>I would investigate state U's that are interested in increasing their SAT score average. For instance, Michigan State would probably admit him to the honors college and award him with an out of state tuition waver with those SAT scores.</p>

<p>As others have pointed out, the top schools will pass due to the grades and class rank. The next tier might accept, but it will be a long shot for the same reason, and he will have little chance of merit aid.</p>

<p>It is unfortunate but true that very high SAT OK grades is a profile not sought by most colleges.</p>

<p>I will caution you that a kid like yours may be (don't take the following personally. I don't know your kid...) at substantial risk at a large state U. If he is not committed to studies, and it sounds like he is not, given his GPA, then he may find endless distractions that lead him away from decent grades.</p>

<p>One way to address this risk is to find an appropriate residental learning environment at a larger college. If you want more on this, just ask in a follow on post.</p>

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<p>newmassdad,</p>

<p>Your assumption that he is not committed to his studies is exactly 180 degrees off his present situation. Perhaps I did not make my messages clear enough. He probably was not committed enough in his first two years, earning a mixtures of A's and B's in honors and AP classes, which i still would not call "not committed". It took an effort to get the grades he got, he just was not putting forth maximum effort. </p>

<p>Now, lets look at today. in his junior year he has one semester B in Honors English and the rest of his grades, all in Honors and AP classes, are A's. So, I would have to say he is now extremely committed to his studies and putting forth maximum effort. </p>

<p>He just doesnt have a view of where his career will take him, though he obviously has an interest in engineering, or he wouldn't be taking college classes in that subject this summer. He just does not know what he wants for a career if you ask him today. But, he loves Math and Physics. Because he hasn't figured out his career choice yet has nothing to do with how he commits himself to books.</p>

<p>Hopefully this will clear up any misperception I, or other messages may have left and I would greatly appreciate your input with this clearer explanation of his high school record.</p>

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<p>A 4.4 weighted GPA is very good. It is NOT a low GPA.</p>

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<p>My oldest S is a freshman engineering student. 1430 SAT's, top 15 to 20% of high school class. Was interested in engineering at a non-engineering school. Wanted a more diverse community that a technical school could give him. (his parents are both engineers, I think he wanted to get away). Was admitted to schools like Rochester, Syracuse, Pitt, Northeastern, UMass, UConn, Drexel, many with merit money. There are a lot of option out there, depending on geographic preference.</p>

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<p>A 3.6/4.41 is a good GPA, and with the excellent SAT's and II's, is going to be fine * almost * everywhere. The places where the grade / SAT mismatch * may * come into play is at the very tippy-top of the selectivity heap - HYPS etc. and the very top LAC's. Nothing wrong with applying to a couple of these, but schools that reject 8 of 9 out of 10 applicants have to base their cut on something. </p>

<p>The good news is, the vast majority of excellent schools do allow a little wiggle room in the grade department. Your son's transcript is going to look like he woke up and smelled the coffee junior year. The GC rec can support this (be sure to meet with the GC to discuss all this college stuff if you haven't already).</p>

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<p>His scores and grades will earn him some great merit money. There is no reason why he can't send in a reach application to a dream school if he wants to, just recognize that he will be competing with straight A kids, and if students from his high school routinely go to HYPS, he is even more narrowly competing with them. I would advise turning his attention South or Midwest and don't look back, he will have some great choices, will be able to choose from a variety of majors, and they will make him feel like a star.</p>