Thanks! Those school breakdowns are so helpful as we have NO IDEA about any soccer programs/coaching preferences, etc.
My son is not a high academic scholar type…he gets the grades needed to be where he’s at. Soccer is def more in his brain than books but I’m encouraging him to really try and bring his GPA up just a bit more.
Anyone know anything about Ithaca and their soccer program? Or Getttysburg, Franklin and Marshall?
Thx again for all your thoughts!
It’s interesting to see the schools mentioned here. In typical CC fashion, it’s top heavy (Haverford, Vassar, NESCACs UAAs, etc.).
In any event, I think you should begin to focus on finding the right school piece before the athletic piece. Do you know what he wants to study? Do you have an idea of the location/environment he wants to be in (city, country, suburbs, etc.)? That should help narrow your list a bit. For example, Stevens is a good school for engineering, with a good soccer program, in the city (Hoboken). On the other hand, Drew is a good school for social sciences and performing arts, with a good soccer program, in the suburbs (Madison). Kids interested in Stevens aren’t likely interested in Drew.
Soccer-wise, would he be happy sitting the bench or getting garbage minutes for 2 years, or would he prefer to contribute more earlier? Is making the NCAA Tournament the be-all end-all, would he be okay on a competitive team that may or may not challenge for a league championship, or would he prefer to be a star on a mediocre team?
Without knowing those answers, it’s hard to steer you anywhere.
My son kept a spreadsheet of historical soccer results. Here’s what it shows for the last 4 years (2016-2019) for a few of the conferences that may be of interest to you. I would add that results can vary widely from year to year. For example, Springfield College was 14-5-1 in 2018 and then 4-13-1 in 2019. I would also add that some schools have changed conferences in the last two years.
Centennial Conference (W/L/D)
Johns Hopkins 58 12 10
Franklin and Marshall 57 17 10
Haverford 47 18 11
Gettysburg 42 25 5
Dickinson 40 29 7
McDaniel 32 29 9
Swarthmore 31 31 10
Muhlenberg 30 31 10
Washington College 29 34 7
Ursinus 11 47 7
Landmark Conference (W/L/D)
Drew 56 22 6
Elizabethtown 46 22 10
Scranton 42 24 5
Catholic 42 27 8
Moravian 34 25 12
Susquehanna 21 42 9
Goucher 21 38 13
Juniata 16 49 7
MAC-Commonwealth (W/L/D)
Messiah 80 7 8
Lycoming 56 20 6
Lebanon Valley 51 24 4
Arcadia 37 35 9
Hood 37 31 6
Stevenson 32 41 9
Alvernia 29 44 7
Widener 24 38 10
Albright 13 52 6
MAC-Freedom (W/L/D)
Eastern 57 21 8
King’s 46 25 7
DeSales 34 33 10
Manhattanville 32 21 3
Wilkes 28 40 5
Misericordia 27 39 9
Delaware Valley 21 50 2
FDU-Florham 20 43 5
Liberty League (W/L/D)
Vassar 42 23 7
Hobart 42 23 12
RPI 41 25 11
St. Lawrence 37 22 8
Union 36 28 3
Clarkson 36 26 9
Ithaca 34 16 8
Skidmore 29 22 17
RIT 27 30 10
Bard 13 47 7
NEWMAC (W/L/D)
Springfield 51 21 6
WPI 47 16 14
Babson 46 23 10
Clark 45 23 6
Wheaton (Mass.) 37 33 6
Coast Guard 34 28 10
MIT 27 28 15
Emerson 16 45 5
F&M, Dickinson, and Gettysburg are all very good schools and are great places for engaging students who may not have found their academic drive in high school. I know a couple of kids who played at the first two, but it was long enough ago to be outdated.
When I think of using a sport to get into a “reach” school, I think it’s best to target schools that are a good academic fit but where your unhooked competition might be really strong rather than ones where you wouldn’t get a look if not for recruitment. So if you are an excellent student who dreams of attending a top NESCAC with single digit acceptance rates, recruitment will be what moves you to the top of the pile. Jmho, but I think a student-athlete has a better academic experience this way. Not to say that all students in the bottom quartile stat-wise struggle to do the work, but I’d give that some thought as well.
Adding College of Wooster to the mix – Coach Andy Zidron is a charismatic, energetic 30 something coach, someone who is building a strong culture for his players which goes way beyond just soccer. Wooster is an easier admit than some of the schools mentioned above, but excellent academics and good merit aid. The only negative is that it is more than an hour from both Cleveland and Columbus airports so not a super easy in-and-out.
Bigger picture considerations for a student considering college soccer – how important is winning and being competitive in the conference? Is the student happy with the experience of being on a team, having a ready-made family on campus, and not hung up on win-loss records and tournaments? If the latter, there are lots of good schools that are not highly competitive in recruiting and are happy to get players. In finding soccer match/safety/reaches, spend time looking at roster bios of schools of interest – if they were all winning regional championships and going to nationals, or were the state player of the year, that tells you something. While many of the super selective schools have excellent soccer programs, it can be a surprise how many less competitive admissions schools are wildly successful soccer programs – Messiah, Calvin, Ohio Wesleyan come to mind. Eastern, in PA, is also a very strong soccer program. So don’t assume that “easier” admit schools are necessarily easier recruiting schools. Again, head on over the d3 soccer boards (under “resources/Men’s soccer message boards”) for chatter about conferences, coaching, players etc.
Great questions…he’s def not a tech/engineering type. He says for now he’s interested in business, MAYBE physical therapy. Honestly, I think he’s still undecided and trying to force himself to find a “major”.
Love the data your son collected, it’s very interesting! I will show him that along with those important questions he should seriously start pondering.
I think you coined it perfectly as my son needs to find a great engaging environment as he has tapped more into his sport than his academic drive. And don’t get me wrong, he’s not a horrible student…just not passionate about learning or pushing himself beyond his academic comfort zone. I will check out for sure those schools you mentioned and send to him!
thx again! def will head over to those boards and forums to learn more! There are so many factors and questions to be answered these next several months…He’s at an ID camp this weekend and hoping he gets some insight that will help him better answer these questions so we can narrow down the search.
Regarding Bard… It has recently come to my attention that Bard has a new and highly credentialed men’s soccer coach. I believe they are also getting a new AD. It might be worth a look. Great school for the right kid.
Great advice. I had a couple of questions related to unofficial college visits. (Honestly, I am confused about them and concerned that I will unknowingly break a rule!)
Here’s the basics:
Son is class of 2024
Interested in top academic D3 schools in the N, NE, and Mid-Atlantic(maybe a couple of D1’s in the Patriot league).
My husband will be in Boston for business at the end of this month. Because we live 1800 miles away, my son and I have decided to tag along and see a few schools in the area. He will also be attending 1 id camp (which will be his first). Our goal is simple- for him to see the campuses and get a first impression.
Are there any important NCAA rules we should be aware of?
Should we tour on our own or schedule an “unofficial” tour?
Any idea what proof of vaccination we should have with us?
Since we are there for 8 days, should he consider doing 1 other (small) Id camp? We hadn’t planned on it, but possible could.
Thanks!!
In Division III, unofficial visits are unlimited. Think of it as a non-athletic college visit combined with a meeting with the coach. Absolutely do it. Have your kid call or email the coach and set up a date and time well in advance. While unofficial, please have your kid prepared. Bring with you to the meeting tapes, college cv, unofficial transcript and high school profile. Tell your kid what to expect. Make sure he has an “elevator speech” prepared, and has prepared in advance at least three questions for the coach. A parent should attend, but let the kid do the talking. The coach likely will turn to you to see if you have questions. You should have some prepared, like: Can my kid get in? How does the recruiting process work? Do you have tryouts for recruits? How do walk-ons work?
Once you have the coach meeting scheduled, I would say play to it by ear. Some coaches won’t be busy and will take you around school. Others will only be able to give only 30 minutes or so. So if the coach says “goodbye - nice to meet you,” head on over to the admissions office and get the map for a self-guided tour.
I would suggest that you make sure to sign in at the admissions office. If the office is closed, they may well have a box to put your name and address on a card to show that you made it to campus. I used to worry that I would be inundated with junk mail if we left our info, but I was told by one admissions office that they make a note of every single point of contact with each student applicant. Colleges are interested in raising yield, so they often consider the effort made by applicants to see the school.
If yours wants to give an ID camp a go, it would seem like a good time to do so.
Sounds like the student is a rising soph (class of 2024), so they can’t meet with coaches yet.
Whew!! I hate to admit it, but that’s a relief!
Should we tour on our own or sign up for a tour?
What are your thoughts on a trying to add a 2nd Id Camp? Is 1 enough for a rising Sophmore?
I am not sure that this is accurate. Do you have a rule? The division III manual provides as follows: “13.7.1 Number Permitted. A prospective student-athlete may visit a member institution’s campus at their own expense an unlimited number of times. A prospective student-athlete may make unofficial visits before January of their junior year in high school. (Revised: 4/20/21).”
They can visit campus anytime, just can’t meet with the coach until the specified time in NCAA rules.
If there are at least 2 days between camps, then it might be worth it to do a second camp, as much for the experience for him, rather than in terms of being seen by any particular coach or program. The experience of rooming overnight with strangers, often in an un-air conditioned dorm, performing for a coach in the heat, can be a big adjustment when a player is putting it all on the line for the coach of a top choice school. So getting some experience with the non-soccer aspects of the camp experience can be helpful so that those aspects aren’t overwhelming when it comes time for the soccer to really shine. Of course, it’s nice to catch a coach’s eye as a rising sophomore, but D3 coaches are going to be more focused on the rising juniors and even seniors than on the sophomores, and know that rising sophomores still have a lot of physical growth and maturity before they are more “finished” soccer products.
I’m still not sure that I agree. The NCAA rules for Division III differentiate between recruiting “contacts” that occur on a college’s campus and those which occur off campus (tournaments, high schools, recruits’ homes, etc.).
Rule 13.01.4, which is located in the recruiting general principles, first states the broadest proposition - that contacts are allowed on and off campus, and then goes onto restrict the timing of only off campus contacts before the end of an athlete’s sophomore year. By itself this rule would allow on campus, unofficial visit meetings before the end of a student’s sophomore year. The rule provides that: “Representatives of an institution’s athletics interests (as defined in Bylaw 13.02.9) may make in-person, on- or off-campus recruiting contacts with a prospective student-athlete; however, such off-campus contacts may not occur until the conclusion of the prospective student-athlete’s sophomore year in high school.”
Rule 13.1.1 also differentiates between on campus and off campus contacts. It provides: “In-person, off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with a prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s relatives or guardian(s) until the prospective student- athlete has completed their sophomore year in high school. U.S. service academy exceptions to this provision are set forth in Bylaw 13.15.1.” Since this rule precludes only in person, off campus contacts before the end of a student’s sophomore year, by implication it permits on campus contacts before the end of a student’s sophomore year.
These are the NCAA only, Division III Rules. League rules can be more restrictive. I suggest that you contact the coach, who will definitely decline the meeting if he or she thinks the meeting is inappropriate.
I’m very much in the same boat as you, with a rising junior who is hoping to be recruited for a D3 school (maybe low D1, but I think realistically D3 is more likely and a better fit).
I just wanted to add one thing on timing of all this. I think you got good advice from some of the early responses on the usual timing for recruiting and when it’s really important to be in full swing. But if you’re just getting started now, don’t feel like you’re behind the schedule. My son has gone to a couple of id camps in the last few weeks and heard from coaches at two different schools that the pandemic has thrown off their timing. While they are happy to take a look at rising juniors, they’re really more focused on the rising seniors because they have never seen some of those kids play, and many of them don’t even have any tape to view from the last year and a half. So typically a D3 school might already have a pretty good idea of who they’re most interested in recruiting for the imminent application season by this point, but right now they’re kind of playing catch up and still really focused on those rising seniors. Of course, they also have the difficulty of being able to recruit fewer kids this year, as many schools have players who are staying for a 5th year of eligibility, so their rosters don’t have the same turnover. All of that is to say, it’s definitely better this summer to be a rising junior than a rising senior! Gives the pandemic bubble a little more time to work it’s way through the system.
As for your dilemma about playing for a club, I don’t know if this strategy will work out in the end, but we’ve decided to focus our efforts more heavily on summer id camps. Our son goes to boarding school, and it’s difficult to arrange for him to play with a club team too. There’s a perfectly adequate (but nothing exceptional) club team about half an hour away that he played for this spring and will again next year. That same organization has an MLS Next and ECNL teams that he could try out for, but they’d be over an hour away from school, and we just feel like that’s too hard and will impact his school work too much. I’ve convinced myself that hoping to get recruited by playing on a higher profile team that goes to playoffs and top showcases is just a crap shoot anyway – what if the team plays poorly that day? What if the coaches are all there, but are watching some other kid anyway? Also, my son plays defense, and I feel like it’s harder to stand out as a defense player, it’s not like you can dazzle the coach with an amazing goal even if the rest of team doesn’t play well. So he’ll play club just to keep improving his soccer skills and show dedication to the sport, but will rely on id camps for the actual recruiting efforts.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Yep this summer we’ve been done
Some iD camps and so far he’s learning a lot! It’s such an overwhelming experience but also very exciting. So glad to
Have found this forum and learn from
So many people’s experiences.
I’m going to jump off (again) from a comment by @Midwestmomofboys about coach "chatter"and the “insider action”. Your club coach, or trainer, should/needs to advocate for your player. We all know of overlooked gems at every level and every corner of the world, and we can all be assured that college recruiting is nowhere near efficient or exhaustive given the limited resources.
Coaches I think rely on word of mouth, and having a player who hopes to be recruited “framed” by a trusted or at least credentialed source can change the situation dramatically. Of course, I’m sure some coaches don’t take anyone else’s opinion, but that seems limiting.
That’s why I suspect recruiting starts with MLS Next showcases, and then on down the perceived pecking order. It’s just a stab at being efficient.
And a corollary: if your son is tall, fast, and/or strong, and can stand out on a field of 22 players (scores buckets) surrounded by 2 dozen other games going on, his recruiting will be much easier. If he’s like 90% of the others, he’s got to get coaches to hone in on what differentiates him. And that takes me back to the chatter part - find an advocate that leads the coaches of the schools he wants to go to by their noses to your player.
This was our experience.
Case in point is my son. With Covid he had very limited opportunities to attend camps or tournaments. We relied heavily on his club coach, who is also the coach of a T20 program, to make phone calls on his behalf. Those calls, combined with a good video, led to several sight unseen offers including a few T20 programs. Without his coach’s endorsement, I don’t think he would have had nearly as many options as he did.