Advice Needed: Not sure which school is best option.

College Search & Selection
1

Advice Appreciated

So, after weeks of debating between 3 schools, daughter finally made a decision. I had my reservations because I haven’t been overly impressed with the administration. However, I was ok with the choice because it is the best fit, has been daughter’s dream since the beginning, and location wise is perfect. Now, however, something has unexpectedly come up, and I’m not sure this school is going to be possible anymore. We can probably jump through a bunch of hoops and make it happen, but we’ve had such issues with this school so far that both daughter and myself aren’t sure we even want to try that. Daughter said to me yesterday, maybe this is a sign I’m not supposed to go here, and I kind of agree because I’d been wondering the same thing.

If she switches and attends a different school, we are both lost as to which of the other two schools to choose.

Pros:
Both are well regarded private schools (nothing prestigious, but known regionally for producing good students), both have daughters major, both offer under grad research, projects, internships, and co-ops, both have small teacher/ student ratio, both have great job placement rates, both have faculty she’s met and like within her major.

Cons:
Both are bad choices location wise, one too close, one too far, both in bad/ less than safe locations. (On campus, I think is fine either school, but she’ll need to learn where to avoid off campus) Daughter felt she’d find friends and activities to get involved in at either school, but didn’t fall in love with either if that makes sense.

Basically, it comes down to financial security at a good school verses some financial insecurity at a much much better school.

School A
This school is covered financially. The school seems to really care, and they seem determined to make sure daughter can fund her 4 years. Daughter’s biological family has recently suffered some major financial set backs, so this is extremely important. The school has been very understanding of daughter’s unique circumstances and have really worked with us. However, the school is tiny, and retention and graduation rates are low which worries me. I have discussed this with many people at the school and do understand what is driving that and don’t think it would effect daughter, but it is still concerning. I’m also concerned about the school being too small as daughter hasn’t clicked with any of the accepted students there. She’s the kind of kid that tends to get along with everyone, but I’d still like her to have friends she genuinely likes verses tolerates. Also, because of size, the labs and facilities are smaller and older. The school is also too close to home as daughter needs to be able to put some distance between herself and her biological family.

School B
Daughter would need to earn $1,500 this summer to cover what she would be short, so nothing unrealistic. However, there’s a chance she’s going to loose some financial aid her junior year. School A has promised to make that up in other scholarships when that happens because their policy is you keep what you start with (assuming in good standing, good grades, etc). School B, she’d just be short. It would only be about 7 thousand which we think we can manage if we start saving now. Junior year is split into two years because of co-op, so really it would only be about $3,000 a year. We think that will be manageable and should be fine, but there’s always that slight risk. School B is a much better school, not that A is bad, but B blows A away. B is a midsize school which I like better, but class size is still small. Their program is ranked in the top 30. Their lab facilities are brand new. What I love is that they seem very organized and on top of things. Website is clear and easy to use. Great instructions. Lots of great resources to make sure the students are successful. Disability services look really well thought out with lots of resources available and clear instructions on how to access. Great retention and graduation rates. It is also the school where a car would not be needed, and we aren’t sure if daughter will have a car or not. Really the only negative I have is the location. The town is a dump in the middle of nowhere and the next closest cities are 3 to 4 hours away and not cities I’m fond of. It is also farther away than what we wanted, but in her case farther is better than closer.

Finances
Both schools will require daughter to take out unsubsidized and subsidized student loans. We are ok with this as daughter is going into engineering, so she should be able to easily pay those off. If she changes her mind about engineering, the plan is she will transfer to the school her biological mother works at which she can attend for free. She will actually get $5,000 back a year in aid there, so that will cancel out any loans she took. Because we do have that option to fall back on, we are ok with the loans and a little financial risk. If she was planning on a different major, it would be different. Daughter’s biological family is able to contribute nothing to her education. She is completely on her own. I have told her if she can cover tuition, I can cover cost of living expenses during the year, plane tickets, unexpected costs that arise, etc., but I can’t do both. I may be able to do some toward tuition as well, anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 a year, but I’m not sure right now. I’m in the process of changing jobs, so I don’t want to commit to something I can’t follow through on if my new job doesn’t work out. I know 100% we can do the first two years at B no matter what. I’m 99% that we can figure out junior and senior year also, but there’s is some risk.

School A
Freshman Year: get to keep $500 in work study, have $5,500 loan
Sophomore Year: get to keep $500 in work study, have $5,500 loan
Junior Year: Free except for $5,500 loan
Senior Year: Free except for $5,500 loan
Approximately $22,000 in loans

School B
Freshman Year: short $1,500 on top of $5,500 loan
Sophomore Year: short $500 on top of $6,500 loan
Junior Year 1 / Coop: short $2000 to $3,000 on top of $3,750
Junior Year 2 / Coop: short $2000 to $3,000 on top of $3,750
Senior Year: covered except for $7,500 loan
Approximately $27,000 in loans

We are 99% sure daughter can earn what she’s short each year during the summer even at minimum wage. The plan is for her to make 3 to 4 this summer and 3 to 4 next summer. That would cover close to what she’s going to be short. Hopefully, any extra needed could be earned during coop. We have been told engineering internships and co-ops pay more than minimum wage, so it seems believable she could earn an extra 2 to 3 grand that she could save for school. I know there are also scholarships for woman in engineering that are only for junior and senior year. Financially, everyone should be in a better place to help her out as well, even if it is only a small amount, so I don’t think this is an impossible situation if she wants to go for it.

Part of me thinks the benefits of school B far outweigh any financial sacrifice that might be required. Another part of me thinks if she can’t go to her top choice than we should play it safe with school A and not worry about money at all.

I guess what I really want to know is would we be crazy to pass up a much better school over such a small amount of money overall. We are talking maybe $10,000 total over 5 years, or crazy to not choose the financially 100% secure option?

Thanks

2

@NicoleGreen I sympathize with your situation and I am sorry that you are having to deal with it. This might seem like a simple/crazy question but what school do you think she will be the happiest at? I put a lot of value on the students experience and whether they are thriving or not? It seems like all of the schools have her major. I know $10,000 is a lot of money but it seems that she can make that amount over the summers if she works? From what you have said school B sounds like a better option just from the way you are describing it. It seems like you feel that way too am I right? If location is the only negative kids don’t seem to mind that as much as we do :slight_smile: What is her gut telling her? I know these decisions are so very tough and I am wishing you the best of luck!!

3

From your comments, I’m inclined to suggest School B as well. A low retention ratio is a warning. How do the endowments for Schools A and B compare?

The only question is safety. What does dump mean? Is the campus policed well? You should have D talk to current students in her intended program about these things.

4

I admit I have a bias against small schools. My kids looked at several and I just found them too claustrophobic. I’ve met a lotof students who were fine with small schools their first year but were ready for more by sophomore year. In your case, I’d go with School B which sounds like it offers more options for classes (and for work?).

At ANY school she’d get to keep the work study money she earns. At school B she could have a job and earn that money. In the co-op at school B, she’ll get paid.

5

Finances are my son’s (and my) #1 concern, so I understand where you are coming from.

If your daughter earns the money through the summer, will it affect her FA amount? Have you talked to the school or calculated how much she can earn before it affects her CSS/ FAFSA/ FA from the school?

My son has been applying for tons of outside scholarships (big and small,) especially local ones. Not just ones from the college, but ones that fit something special about him. I’m sure your daughter can find ones that will fit her and she will make up some of the money that way, plus most are tax free.

I agree with you in that I wouldn’t spend a ton of money to have my child attend a “prestigious” school, but I think if you can accommodate the added expense between A and B, you will feel better about your choice. I sense that you both prefer B.

In addition, you could ask school B to see if they could adjust your D’s FA. If you explain the situation with your concern of not being able to afford it, they might be able to work with you.

Good luck! I’m sure you and your D will make a decision that works for both of you.

6

Hard to give advice without knowing the schools, but it does sound like school 2 is a better option.

However, I have 2 pieces of advice. First, since school 1 is small, check to make sure it is in good financial shape. Second, my son got a great education at NEU, but every semester his bill was wrong, scholarship not included. Website was difficult to navigate, surprising for a school with a great CS program. Basically, is the issues with the administration worth putting up with for the education.

7

@13street
Both campuses are policed very well with real police and not rent-a-cops. Cleary reports are fine. Both schools seem on top of safety with lots of resources. However, both areas around campus are less than desirable with shootings in the last year.

Dump: old, run down. Looks like the town was hit hard by the recession. Lots of abandoned boarded up buildings, lots of grey and brown, almost no landscaping at all. I didn’t see any shopping centers or areas that looked all that well taken care of. You might find one odd business here or there that looked nice. Roads in total disrepair, worse than Arkansas. They actually reminded me of when they are in the process of repaving and haven’t yet put the top layer on.

8

It sounds like the benefits outweigh the added cost and location. I think it’s ok to not have much around campus as long as the college provides enough opportunities.

Good luck with the choices!

9

Ok, I’m not sure I really understand Endowments, but I’m assuming that 300 million is much much better than 34.

School A
34 million endowment
about 1,500 students, including grad school

School B
305 million endowment
About 5,000 undergrad

10

@twoinanddone

She received federal work studies at $2,000 a year as part of her aid package at both schools. She needs to put that money toward tuition. However, at school A, she only needs to put $1,500 of the $2,000 toward tuition, so that’s why I said she’d have $500 she would get from that. At school B, she needs to put the whole $2,000 toward tuition.

Both schools offer internships and coops. School A is located in a large city and actually has a formal partnership with 25 corporations. Some of them very well known. The students start interning as freshman through this special career readiness program they have. That was what originally attracted us to this school. Most students are receiving job offers junior year because of this special program. 100% have jobs before graduation. Although, you have to make it through, and like I said, retention and 4 year graduation rates are low.

11

I’d say school B based on endowment and retention.

Regarding work study, I believe it’s typically received after doing the work, a pay check from a on campus job, that maxes out at $2000 at your two schools. Check out the timing, and see how it’s handled at the schools.

For my D her work study money is her spending money as it comes in every 2 weeks depending on the hours she works. Confirm with the schools too she will be able to get a job that provides her the hours to earn $2000.

12

@GFORCE2818

Daughter has won a few outside scholarships already, and we are in the process of applying to a few more. I just don’t want to count on money we don’t have yet in case she doesn’t get anymore than what she currently has.

13

@Atyraulove

We have spoken with each school’s FA office. Basically, they have two different types of work study. The federal aid kind which you have to show need for and must be awarded as part of your Financial Aid package and the regular kind open to any student. What we’ve been told is that because daughter was awarded the work study as part of her aid package, she is guaranteed a job with enough hours to make the award amount, $2,000. Whereas someone with a regular work study would not be guaranteed a job or set hours.

14

Makes sense that they will prioritize federal work study students for campus jobs, since it comes with a subsidy of the student’s pay from the government.

However, the hours may be limited to the work study amount, since hours beyond the work study amount would be unsubsidized and cost that unit of the campus the student’s full pay.

15

I feel like small school and poor retention make for a bad combination. The erosion of the peer group will be felt, and that can be hard on morale. It’s one thing to attend a larger school with a lot of attrition, if you’re one of the top students - then there’s likely to be an honors program or some other way of connecting with a cohort that won’t have too much fallout. But at a small school, there’s no escaping the shrinkage, kwim? I think mid-sized School B sounds like a healthier situation, with more stability, more resources, more options.

16

I’d pick school B

17

An endowment of $34 million in a college with 1,500 students is a red flag. Having low retention and having kids dropping out, points toward plummeting tuition revenue, as well as other issues, making this even more of a problem. Having aging facilities points to the potential for large upcoming expenses, or loss of facilities, which they don’t seem to have the money to fix. I’m sorry, but School A has “Doomed” written all over it in large red letters. Antioch college closed in 2007 with $36 million in endowments, and the other, similar issues.

It’s easier to pay back $27,000 if you have a degree than pay back $22,000, but not have a degree since either the school shut down, or they needed to shut down lab facilities, or close down departments did were not have enough students, etc.

There is little question in my mind that your daughter should attend college B.

PS, Antioch reopened in 2011. It now has 135 students and an endowment of $44 million

18

College B

19

For an engineering student, college B. Also it sounds like college B would have more options if she decides against engineering. My DS16 has had to find his own summer employment rather than had school assistance in locating internships. He has easily made the amount of money you are concerned about in his engineering related jobs. He also works on campus 8-16 hours a week and has been successful at keeping his grades up while doing so. The added benefit of working on campus is that he has gotten to know lots of people and really feels like part of the community there. Good luck with the decision!

20

Another vote for college B for reasons expressed in all the above comments.