<p>Hi. Our daughter is a rising senior in California with her heart set on attending a liberal arts college back east. She literally has a list of 8 factors that she evaluates the schools on, but number one is that it be as racially diverse as possible. She is caucasian but attends a high school that is over 50% students of color. Here is the problem.... although many of the "reach" schools are quite racially diverse, most of the schools that accept 30% or more students are not.... We have tried explaining that schools can be diverse in many ways....</p>
<p>She has fallen in love with 9 schools that have 7 or 8 of 8 of her factors... don't laugh. Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Tufts, Yale, Wesleyan, Wellesley, Mt. Holyoke. But the first seven are considered "reach" schools. We are getting mixed advice and would love any advice from experienced parents.</p>
<p>Technically she is "qualified" for the reach schools (National Merit commended scholar, 2240 SAT (790 crit rdg, 770 writ, 680 math); 800 SAT Subj II Literature and 780 SAT Subj II Spanish; unweighted 4.0 GPA for 3 years high school with 4 APs to date; 4 more next year. She is a great kid with a unique "story" (won't go into it here). But we know that LOTS of kids have these stats. So we have been pushing her to find at least 4-5 more "target or safety" schools -- schools that accept 30% or more students.</p>
<p>Other parents are telling us that isn't true -- that with her scores she should get into at least one of her reach schools. But we have heard horror stories of qualified kids not getting into any reach school.</p>
<p>How many additional "target" or 'safety" schools should she apply to??? She is having a really hard time finding "target" schools that are racially diverse. Carlton in MN but brrr.... Colgate is a good possibility, their focus on racial diversity is growing.</p>
<p>We really don't want to stress her out about this.... but don't want her to be heartbroken either.</p>
<p>The difficulty with the “reach” schools is that they deny as many qualified kids as they admit. (In fact, probably more.) The applicants cannot be broken down into “qualified” candidates who are admitted and “unqualified” candidates who are denied - these schools simply have many more qualified candidates than they have space for. So, at each of these schools, your daughter could be among the group of very highly qualified students who are admitted . . . or she could could find herself among the group of equally highly qualified students who are denied. That’s why they’re considered “lottery” schools - regardless the applicant’s qualifications, there’s simply no guarantee.</p>
<p>I would disagree that she needs to find match (or “target”) schools . . . although I think that Mt. Holyoke and Tufts would probably both qualify. But she absolutely does need to identify at least one or two safety schools she’d be happy to attend and where admission is certain. Not likely, but certain. And Carleton most definitely does not qualify. It’s a great school, but also highly competitive.</p>
<p>Now, I’m assuming that cost is not an issue . . . but even if it is, the good news is that she’d likely qualify for significant merit aid at whatever safety schools she decides on. But only if it’s a true safety, where her stat’s are significantly higher than those of the average candidate. That doesn’t mean she’d be the only candidate with her stat’s, but they’d be the exception, rather than the rule. At any public university with a highly selective honors college, she’d likely quickly find a group of peers just as motivated as she is.</p>
<p>The hardest work in college selection is finding the right safety school, so don’t despair - you’re not alone! :)</p>
<p>I agree, in addition to the colleges identified she needs at least one safety school where the acceptance is assured and you can afford. If Carleton met the diversity criteria then the bar is average and she should be able to find that safety.</p>
<p>My suggestion is to choose TWO safety schools…and make those college choices first. Pick schools this kiddo would like to attend that are also affordable. That way if the other schools don’t work out, she will have a choice to make at the end of the application process.</p>
<p>Pick those safety schools first. IMHO they are the most difficult to choose especially for students who aspire to very competitive schools. </p>
<p>It’s easy to pick the reaches! Do that last!</p>
<p>Just want to re-iterate a point that dodgersmom made–Carleton is not a safety school. The percentage of applicants they accept has dropped in the past couple of years; this year, no one was accepted from the waitlist. Even though her stats are great, I would not make assumptions…</p>
<p>It looks like she may not be able to find any safety schools that fit her criteria.</p>
<p>A small LAC which has low enough selectivity to be a safety might not have enough high achievers like her to target its courses to high achievers like her (unlike big universities that offer honors or other more rigorous courses in their larger course catalogs). Also, some of them use “level of applicant’s interest” to reject or waitlist applicants trying to use them as safeties.</p>
<p>Do not assume that percentage of applicants admitted is a reliable indicator of whether a school is a safety.</p>
<p>Select one for early decision if money is not an issue. Carleton has a 30% admission rate for early admission. She has a decent shot at it. Apply a few early actions also.</p>
<p>If the D wants to be in the NE then Carleton does not fit that criteria and if not Carleton there are many in the midwest. Carleton is an outlier from the criteria the OP posted.</p>
<p>I think odds are she will get into one of these, but I agree that I would strongly encourage her to add 1-2 more that are true safeties and they she would consider attending if she doesn’t get onto one of the others. No need to choose 4-5 more IMHO.</p>
<p>Would she be interested in adding Smith to her list? I think they are supposed to be the most diverse of the women’s colleges. Also, there is a lot of diversity coming from the other colleges in the area.</p>
<p>I understand your feelings! My D had a similar list of all reaches, different schools from your D though, only overlap is Wesleyan. She applied to Pitt (rolling admissions) as her safety, and U Rochester as her match. She really didn’t want to attend Pitt, but would have been OK with Rochester. Her stats were similar to your D’s, a bit higher in SAT Math, and she was very successful with her reaches. She wrote a good essay, but did not have much of a unique story, as your D does. She was an athlete, which may have given her a slight edge at half her reaches where she had met the coach, but they are not schools where that helps much. So I would advise one school with rolling admissions and maybe find one easier to get into in the NE that she would be OK with. Thumper had some good suggestions, although Haverford is getting tougher also. It is very hard to predict. Good luck!</p>
<p>Has she had a chance to visit these schools? She may change her mind about some of them after visiting.</p>
<p>And that, my friends, is exactly what a safety is not.</p>
<p>A safety is a school:
[ol]
[<em>] that is affordable;
[</em>] where admission is assured; and
[li] that the student would be happy to attend.[/li][/ol]</p>
<p>She really only needs one safety, but that is only if it is truly a safety where she is sure to be accepted, could definitely afford and she believes she would be happy attending. Our D, like yours, has only LACs on her list so we can’t know she is certain of acceptance, even where she seems very well qualified. Because of that, our D has 4 schools on her list that we strongly believe (but aren’t absolutely certain) are going to accept her. You might end up taking a similar approach.</p>
<p>Has your D looked at Trinity Univ. in San Antonio? It’s not in the northeast and because of a very small masters program, it doesn’t show up side by side with LACs in guidebooks. But, it is an LAC with great diversity, a bright and engaged student body, well regarded academics, and great weather. It’s also right in a major city.</p>
<p>Mount Holyoke’s acceptance rate of over 50% and about half the class in the top 10% of their high school class makes it a plausible safety. Tufts with a 21% admissions rate and 90% of the students in the top 10% of their class (and about half in the top 5%) is not a safety for anyone.</p>
<p>A rolling admissions school or EA school that the student likes and can afford is a great safety. My younger son originally had Syracuse (too big for him) and American (he loved and offered great merit aid) as his safeties. After he got into U of Chicago early he was able to drop Syracuse from his list. He still applied to American because he didn’t plan to visit Chicago until the spring. </p>
<p>You don’t have to have 4 or 5 safeties. The whole idea of safeties is you are 90% sure you’ll get in. So have two - if worst comes to worst in the spring your daughter will have a choice. There’s nothing wrong with a reach heavy list as long as the student is okay with the safety. My younger son really really liked American and it was excellent in his intended major (International Relations). My older son had two excellent, but less selective tech schools as his safeties.</p>
<p>You guys ROCK!!! I truly appreciate your time. To answer a couple of your questions, yes, all of the schools she has put on her list so far she has visited. She has a rather “visceral” reaction to schools so visiting is required. (e.g., Bowdoin and Amherst on paper may seem similar but she did NOT like Bowdoin and loved Amherst…). Same with Smith, Wellesley, Mt Holyoke & Bryn Mawr – loved Wellesley & Mt H only.</p>
<p>Mt Holyoke is her one safety right now. A second safety is Occidental (although it is here in So Cal). Both she feels she would “love.” To the person who gave the list of possibles - thank you! She did visit Haverford and liked it but is debating whether it may be too small; she is considering both Colgate and Hamilton; Villanova was too large; Lehigh too large and too “Greek system” (her words, not mine); Conn College is another possible but she is hearing that it is very prep school. The idea of Trinity in Texas is interesting! Thank you! The asst headmaster at her school recommended that. The end result from all of your comments is that she SHOULD continue to look at schools that accept 30% or more students – but clearly they need to be schools that would still be a fit. </p>
<p>My son faced some of the same challenges to find a “diverse” school that was also not a reach for admission acceptance rate. Trinity definitely fit the bill!</p>
<p>I will also say, DS was denied from Oxy. I would not consider it a safety.</p>
<p>In the end, DS just did not find many schools with diversity. The bigger schools had it on paper, but in practice, the students tended to not interact. The Quaker schools are worth a look, but for us, my son’s favorites were still in that low AR.</p>
<p>If she has a shot at NMF, you may also want to try and look into some of the schools that offer big merit. We were pleasantly surprised at opportunities in the honors colleges of these schools.</p>
<p>I second Mamabear’s idea of a solid Rolling Admissions safety. It really eased anxiety in our household.</p>
<p>I agree with Longhaul to consider a school with big merit aid and has strengths in the major that she likes - include the smaller private universities (University of Rochester). Also you could think about applying to one of the smaller state flagships with a good honors college (University of Vermont). I think having a decision early is important also. As Mamabear and Longhorn suggested, pick a school with early action or rolling so you have an acceptance in hand. I know it seems like I am adding schools but I think having ‘different styles’ of schools in the final acceptance bin is important because it helps her to define what she really wants and she may think differently in April than she thought back in in November. It is good to have choices for May 1st.
Mount Holyoke is gorgeous and I know several ‘really nice’ people who attend.
I have to mention Vassar as an additional school to check out. Lots of diversity and they have their first group of Posse scholars (US Veterans) starting in the fall.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that many competitive colleges disregard the writing score and look only at the CR/M scores. NOT that your daughter’s scores are not solid…just saying.</p>
<p>She could look at Wheaton (MA) as a safety–halfway between Boston and Providence. Not sure how much diversity it has but that is a challenge at any small school.</p>
<p>Also think it’s amusing that Carleton is considered “brrr” but New England is not. Midwestern winters might be a bit colder but they also tend to be sunnier, plus we don’t have nor’easters. :)</p>