<p>Man, I have to learn a lot of acronyms. So I guess I am the “OP”. I love all of your feedback. I agree on many points made – when I refer to percentage admits on schools, the “safety” decision vs target or reach should still ultimately be made on whether the applicant’s stats are HIGHER than the 25-75% average for that school. In my D’s case, her “safeties” are ones that a) she LOVES and thinks she would be perfectly happy there; b) her stats are significantly above their 25-75% average; and c) they accept 35%-40% of applicants or more. We will not qualify for financial aid but merit would be great. I love reading all of your postings. You guys have a ton of experience and it is great to learn. We as a family strongly believe that she should ONLY apply to schools that she believes she would be happy at … it means she has to do a lot of research and visiting but it is the right thing for her. She is in a Central American country right now but texted me that she is adding Macalester to her list. One of the top LAC that sends volunteers into the Peace Corp. Working in international medical humanitarianism is my daughter’s dream. Thank you all for your great advice.</p>
<p>OP = Original Poster
Try this:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52585-abbreviation-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52585-abbreviation-thread.html</a></p>
<p>There are not LOTS of kids who have these stats. OP’s D is definitely in an elite group. </p>
<p>Yale and Dartmouth are reaches, Mt Holyoke is almost a safety except that they might not believe that a student this great would ever go there, so she might get waitlisted, so I’d give that a 90% chance. All of the rest of matches. Wellesley is a very likely match, I’d say at least 60% - they’ve eliminated half the population by being single sex, so their admit rate can only be so low. </p>
<p>I think it’s a fine list of schools. I would add some early action or rolling admissions school that she can apply to and get a decision before her other applications are due. If any of these choices are acceptable, it would eliminate the need for a safety and eliminate some pressure before the other applications are due. Some choices worth considering for this role are</p>
<p>Boston College - Liberal arts like university in Boston suburbs. They are restrictive early action in that a student may not apply EA if she is applying ED at another school, which she isn’t likely to do. </p>
<p>University of Pittsburgh - probably bigger than she wants, but they have a nice honors program and are very generous so a full-ride might be a nice consolation prize, rolling admissions</p>
<p>Kalamazoo College - liberal arts college in Michigan, notification mailed 12/20</p>
<p>University of Chicago - very competitive admissions, very intellectual, very diverse, but they like early action, and this is a strong candidate. If she’s accepted, it would be nice to have as a safety.</p>
<p>Georgetown - very difficult to get in, restrictive in that you can’t apply early decision anywhere. </p>
<p>Santa Clara University</p>
<p>Beloit College - meets full need, kind of like a fine New England LAC, but not in New England</p>
<p>I really think that she is going to get into several of the choices on her list though, so don’t stress.</p>
<p>My suggestions: If Lehigh is too big, look at Lafayette. Fairfield is definitely a safety for OP and would meet the criteria.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad: I agree with you (and probably everyone would agree with you) that the OP’s daughter will more likely than not get into one or more of the nine colleges listed, and that her chances are especially good at Mount Holyoke and Wellesley. But the point of having a “safety” is to cover more possibilities than “more likely than not”, and unless an applicant is really gung-ho about going to a women’s college I would worry about her feeling boxed-in if that wound up being her only choice. And I think you are being a little non-realistic about just how “elite” her stats make her. About 27,000 kids every year have SAT scores 2200 and above; 20,000 have scores higher than she. And that’s on a single test – with best-of-section score picking, you could probably add 20% to both numbers. Her GPA is great, of course, but it’s hard to know how great without knowing a lot more about the school. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, all of the co-ed colleges to which she plans to apply, combined, probably accept about 5,000-6,000 total unhooked kids primarily on their academic strengths. It’s far from a foregone conclusion the OP’s daughter will be in that group. Every year, kids with stats like hers are not accepted at each of them.</p>
<p>I don’t think I was suggesting not having a safety, I was suggesting trying to get into an acceptable college EA. The best safety is a school that you are already admitted to, and would be happy to attend. </p>
<p>There really aren’t many appropriate private LACs that are safeties for this student because small schools often waitlist candidates with stats like these because they don’t want to waste an admit on a student not likely to attend. Union college is a good example. In our Naviance, students like this get waitlisted. Also not having anything in the bag early is really stressful. I was suggesting schools that the OP’s D might like that if she got in, would eliminate the need for more safeties. </p>
<p>Finally, I recall YOU giving me the same excellent advice about 4 years ago in a very similar discussion, LOL. It was good advice then and good advice now. Thank you.</p>
<p>What is intended major? Is she planning to go to Grad. School?
Why choosing based on reacn/safety…etc. She should choose the school where she wiil be happy for the next 4 years, where she will feel “at home”. Apparently, the resources are unlimited. Otherwise, we gave a great consideration to the price of UG education, but the Grad. school was in plans way back in early HS years.</p>
<p>I’m with you, ClassicRockerDad, although I got jumped on on p.1 of this thread for saying Pitt was my D’s safety which she wasn’t crazy about. Full tuition scholarships are nice, though, if you have to go for a year and apply for a transfer! In my mind, Colby and Oberlin were most likely safeties for her also, along with Rochester, but you never know. Once she got into Chicago she could breathe a lot easier.</p>
<p>I don’t think Rochester rejects or waitlists good students so that could be a good safety, but they won’t tell you early, so you still have the stress. </p>
<p>On our Naviance, neither Colby nor Oberlin would be a safety. A few kids got waitlisted with terrific stats.</p>
<p>If OP’s daughter can accept schools outside the Northeast, I second Emory’s Oxford College and especially Agnes Scott which would be a true safety, is in Atlanta, has good merit aid, and is very diverse.</p>
<p>check Colgate University</p>
<p>She has fallen in love with 9 schools that have 7 or 8 of 8 of her factors… don’t laugh. Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Tufts, Yale, Wesleyan, Wellesley, Mt. Holyoke. But the first seven are considered “reach” schools. We are getting mixed advice and would love any advice from experienced parents.</p>
<p>With those scores, I would think she would definitely get into Wellesley, Mt. Holyoke, Wesleyan, and Tufts. The others are a roll of the dice. Our valedictorian this year from our highly competitive college prep high school was wait listed at places like Duke and did not get into Princeton. Frankly, I believe, you have some safety schools built in here, but if you want to add a second tier of schools, you should do so. </p>
<p>I will say that our daughter (who didn’t have the scores your daughter has) applied for almost all reach schools and didn’t get into any of them. She was wait listed at three and did come off of the wait list.</p>
<p>Good luck. Picking 2-3 safety schools to apply to is always a good idea. Our daughter should definitely have done that.</p>
<p>Also, I just read Denison as a suggestion on here. It is a GREAT college and everyone I know who went to Denison LOVES IT and has been very successful. It is in a beautiful town of Granville, Ohio…45 minutes east of Columbus. The town is very picturesque and has a definite New England feel.</p>
<p>Can the OP’s daughter get her math to 700? Her stats are good, but a little lopsided – that 700 does seem to be a “magic” number for admissions & merit aid at some schools (especially for admission to the reach schools on her list). I know the schools don’t say so, but if it were my kid I would breathe a lot easier on a lot of the schools we are discussing if she could get her math there. Even if she can, you won’t know until fall if she decides to take the SAT again. And you still have to develop a list of match schools anyway.</p>
<p>I don’t think Wellesley or Wesleyan are matches, I think they are reaches. Because of the lopsided scores and also because the OP has not talked about extra curriculars – those are factors for all the schools on the list (LaBechtel, I know your D got into Wellesley off the waitlist, but she had really strong extracurriculars and leadership skills which probably tipped the balance for her).</p>
<p>Here is the thing that I think comes up a lot as kids look at colleges. No matter how much YOU want the college, the college does not have to want you back. Wishing doesn’t make it so in the admissions world. So as hard as it is for a teenager to do this, they have to treat it a bit like a business transaction (the colleges sure think of it that way!). She needs to hedge her bets with some places she is sure to get into, and not get too hung up on colleges she may not get into.</p>
<p>Tufts doesn’t care that much about scores. They care a lot about whether you are a good fit for their values. They reject top scoring students all the time. Anyone who thinks Tufts is a good bet is deluding themselves. </p>
<p>I agree with ClassicRockerDad that an EA acceptance is the best safety of all. I’ve looked at our Naviance and I haven’t seen a single small slightly less selective LAC that rejected any top applicant. I really think the students who get rejected have sent essays saying “And that’s why I love X college” to Y college.</p>
<p>^^^That may have been true in the past, mathmom re: Tufts looking at SAT scores. With an acceptance rate now of 19%, I think anyone without at least 700 in each category is denied. Case in point: I know of two kids who applied in the last 2 years to Tufts: the first a female with impeccable EC’s, community service, top, top student: denied because SAT’s did not reach 700 in each category. Perfect candidate for that school in every way. This past year, same with a young man we know. Same situation, denied. We could not think of ANY reason for their denials except for the fact that their SAT scores were not at least 700 in each category.</p>
<p>Just a heads up on the Oxford recommendation. Merit scholarships are not given out automatically, students have to apply through the Oxford Scholars program
[Oxford</a> College - Oxford Scholars](<a href=“http://oxford.emory.edu/admission/admission_checklist/oxford_scholars.dot]Oxford”>http://oxford.emory.edu/admission/admission_checklist/oxford_scholars.dot)</p>
<p>What I mean is that only good scores is not going to get you into Tufts. </p>
<p>I know you don’t need perfect scores, because my son got in - but his scores were still very good. (790 CR, 690M) and three subject tests over 700 and one 790 there too. The selectivity was not that different three years ago, though I admit each year it gets a little harder to get in. At any rate my point is the same as yours - not a safety! Not for fabulous scorers or less than fabulous scorers.</p>
<p>I can’t believe the thread keeps going! I am the “OP” and wanted to answer a couple of questions. I hesitated to give more info in case someone on here recognizes her. As a family, we don’t share her SAT scores with anyone because it can create such angst among other parents… First, yes, we totally recognize my daughter’s SAT scores are lopsided. We have debated encouraging her to study hard over the summer for math and improve it. But here’s the deal. She took a PSAT and got 67 math. She took three practice SAts and got 670. She took her first SAT and got 670. Studied super hard on math and took it a second time and got 680. She only misses 1-2 questions but skips an average 4-5. She can answer the 4-5 but runs out of time each time. She is in honors precalculus with an A – she just needs more time and isn’t going to get it. So…</p>
<p>Also, we have worked with our daughter to ensure that she is always, as much as possible, stress free. This is a kid who played top level club soccer through this year, and two high school varsity sports. She films her own videos with a group of friends; just finished her Girl Scouts Gold Award, and she volunteers a ton with a non-profit medical organization. She is in a Central American country right now for a month working in a maternity clinic. Why? Because she loves it. Her dream is to have a career in international humanitarianism, preferably global health of some kind. Maybe even filming documentaries (combining her film and medical/nonprofit). She is a kid who does nothing because it looks good on her application; she will fight us tooth and nail. She does everything because she loves her life. She was born with a rare genetic disorder, has gone through hell and back over the last 17 years, and is so grateful that she got the best medical care that is offered. She believes in karma. It is her time to give back. Her list of 9 schools are schools that she has carefully chosen because she literally has a list of 8 factors that she measures the schools on. Example: is there an Episcopalian church within walking distance; are there interesting classes that I want to take. The issue of “reach” versus “target” versus “safety” comes from her dad and I. She simply chooses schools that she thinks would be a good fit and prays she gets in to one. We are the ones that are concerned that she has too many “reach” schools and that she may be disappointed. So our email is completely from her parents, not from her. She sleeps 8 hours a night, and is a happy balanced kid. Even though she is mine, I will admit she is a remarkable kid who truly seems to know what is best for her – she will not “play the game” - she says it isn’t authentic of her and if a school doesn’t like her, it isn’t the right school. </p>
<p>So… I hope this answers some of your questions. I have really appreciated the feedback on some other schools for her to investigate. She has already decided to apply Early Decision to one particular school, her favorite (it met 8 of her 8 factors, ha ha). Thank you all for being there. I have been particularly impressed with how polite people are to one another. Even with such different viewpoints. Kudos to you all.</p>