<p>A friend's daughter (26 years old) is moving to NY for a job. Her employment is on the upper west side. She's not a real city girl (yet!) and wants to know where she should look for an apartment that would be and feel safe. Could someone familiar with the area give me some boundaries that she should look within? Again, she wants a relatively quiet, safe neighborhood. Thanks.</p>
<p>First question is, how much is she willing to spend on rent?</p>
<p>Hmmmmmmmmmm. I don't have that information yet, but I'm assuming that she'll pay whatever she has to to be in a place that is/feels safe to her. She'll be making about $35,000/year.</p>
<p>I don't know many 26 year old girls who are willing to live in a studio apartment, which are expensive as it is. A 1 bedroom apartment is going to be really expensive. The best bang for her buck would be to find a roommate, but finding a random roommate is hairy and potential for trouble if she doesn't already know someone.</p>
<p>Are mommy and daddy going to be subsidizing her living expenses, or does she expect to get something good on a $35K salary? Most people making that little in NYC are getting "help." Whether she needs to work within a tiny budget or not is really an important question.</p>
<p>I'm going to be seeing her tomorrow, will get more financial details and post them. I'm also thinking that she's going to be in for the shock of a lifetime. Her main criteria is that it be safe, safe, safe. Perhaps her parents would be willing to subsidize for safety. I'll let you know. Thanks.</p>
<p>$35K is well, well under the average for manhattan south of 96th st.</p>
<p>Some ideas:</p>
<p>1) is she willing to live in brooklyn, or queens, and have a slightly longer commute?
2) for that matter, is she willing to live WAY uptown, in like washington heights/inwood, and commute?
3) If I told you that the south harlem area (110th to 125th from lenox west to morningside) was safe, you might not believe me (I live there now). But it is. And it's cheap. I have 3 roommates, 2 of which I knew from college and 1 of which we found through craigslist, and we split a 4BR that is $2850/month, so the 3 of them pay $700/mo each. Two of them make in the 30-35k range, and roughly make ends meet while having a little bit of a life.
4) By the way, most landlords insist that in order to approve an application to rent, you need to either make 40 times the monthly rent, in salary, between all lease signees - or have a guarantor (read: parents!) who, in total, make(s) 80x the monthly rent. Tell her parents to get ready to put their credit on the line too!</p>
<p>The thing is, in ANY neighborhood of the city, if you are very naive, it doesn't matter where you are, safety is not guaranteed. There are middle-class neighborhoods (like south harlem) where there are shady people walking the blocks every now and then, but by and large unless you're stupid, you're safe.</p>
<p>Now, at the other extreme, max peace of mind: a doorman building in the upper west side, on something like West End Avenue. even with 1 roommate (let's say they get a 1BR and make it sleep 2), would probably be $2500+, so let's say $1300/month each. That's probably your price range for true peace of mind and convenience at the same time (i.e. minimal commute for her).</p>
<p>But break down her monthly budget:</p>
<p>$35k/yr is $3k/month
Assume the government takes 20% between income tax, FICA, etc. the city/state will probably take another 5% (yes, there's city income tax). so let's say that's $2200/mo in take-home pay.</p>
<p>$1300/month for rent is already more than half her income. Then add in (likely) utilities, cable/internet (admittedly split 2 ways), general life maintenance supplies like TP, cleaning stuff, an occasional visit from a maintenance man... you're probably spending $1500/month to actually live in such a place.</p>
<p>If she shops for food and cooks ALL her dinners herself, she could probably get by on $15-20/day for food. But let's say she eats out once a week (usually a necessity in manhattan), or occasionally uses FreshDirect because she doesn't have time... you know what, cut the girl some slack, say $20/day. That's $600/month in food. You're already at $2100/month just with living and eating. Now what happens when she needs clothes, or a monthly subway pass ($76), or god forbid wants to hit the nightlife? Answer: she probably comes crying to you, or she racks up credit card debt.</p>
<p>That's off the top of my head, so please accept my apologies if it's a little crude, but even spending half your take-home pay on rent is pretty much seen as the absolute max, even for a rent-crazed place like manhattan. There are solutions. Example: Hoboken, New Jersey, where you avoid some taxes, rents are at least a little lower, and you can take the PATH trains and maybe have a 45-minute commute to the upper west side (i'm estimating). It's basically almost as safe, but there are more cars, highways, parking lots, run-down areas... it's not for an idealist. But i've checked into it myself before; the neighborhoods just north of route 3 are really nice, even through Weehawken (figure you can go north till about 65th st in jersey before it starts getting rougher). The places right near the cliff/parkway/palisades, on JFK Blvd East, are gorgeous in some cases.</p>
<p>Another idea: keep going up the 1 train (or A). Washington Heights between 168th and 190th, west of broadway, is not a bad neighborhood. Keep going north into Riverdale (the nicest part of the bronx - feels like a suburb) on the 1 train and who knows, maybe you can find a match there (i haven't priced the area but i know it's nice). I wouldn't live in the rest of the bronx if i had the option, but that much isn't a bad idea.</p>
<p>Astoria, Queens is a decent neighborhood - lot of families, lot of greek restaurants, lower-middle-class but not too dense. The price would be right for her there - $700-900/month would get her plenty of apartment, and the R/W trains are real close (with a transfer at times square for the 1/2/3 to the upper west side). But the quality will vary block by block (and it's not so hot the closer you get to Laguardia).</p>
<p>I have three pieces of real advice for you, out of all this rambling:</p>
<p>1) Most people solve many of these problems with roommates. The bigger the financial issues, the more roommates.
2) Browsing Craigslist's apartment listings, roommate seekers listings, etc for a few days is an absolute education in the NYC housing market. If you can start putting neighborhood names on a map as you browse through some listings, and get an idea of what studios/1BR/2BR/3+BR go for in some of these places, you'll learn quick what you're up against, and start to understand your own priorities better.
3) It may become necessary for you to retain an apartment broker. These guys can be predatory. They work for commission, often a sizeable chunk of an entire year's rent. But in exchange for that, they do work for you, and they have inside deals with landlords, who will only put their listings out through these brokers. They'll monitor what comes up, remember who you are, and call you if they find a match to your needs. But the price can be steep. Our $2850/m apartment was an absolute steal, and the guy wanted 15% of a year's rent. We talked him down to 12%, and still grumbled as we handed over $4100 to the dude just for finding us the apt, taking us around, and putting in our application. The apartments out there without a broker fee (i.e. listed by owner, etc) are few and far between, and competition for them is even more rabid. Just, whatever you do, stay away from the brokerage called "Manhattan Apartments". Citi Habitats is the #2 brokerage behind them, but they treat you much more like human beings.</p>
<p>Best of luck,
D</p>
<p>D,</p>
<p>You truly are a wealth of information. I, and I'm sure many others here, really appreciate your thoughtfulness and the time you take to answer question/give advice. This is going to help my friend's daughter tremendously! Again, many thanks.</p>