Advice: Physical Therapy vs Nursing

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I've recently finished my bachelors of science in kinesiology, and I've been accepted to a fairly competitive and prestigious physical therapy program. However, the total cost of the program will be $150K+. Along with my undergrad, I will be owe towards $250K including interest. I've looked into financial aid repayment programs (e.g. income based repayment, 10 year public service), and I've been having my doubts if I should continue on this path to DPT. I see 2 scenarios - 1) Do the income based repayment program, make around $85K per year, and pay $795 per month for the next 25 years. This will be a problem if I ever wanted to take out a mortgage or start a family. 2) Do the 10 year public service program, make below average DPT salary, live in the middle of nowhere (e.g. Arizona, Texas, South Dakota) for 10 years. Both scenarios lead to a miserable quality of life due to burden of debt that I would have to carry for so long. </p>

<p>The other option is nursing. There is a nursing program in Puerto Rico that is accredited by the United States. It's a 2 year BSN accelerated program that will cost only $16K. Considering that I can go into a masters program for nurse practitioner or nurse anesthetist and can eventually make over $100K, and also that some hospitals pay for nurses' continued education, nursing looks like a smarter financial move in the long run.</p>

<p>I know that it is very difficult to get into DPT school and it would be a shame to pass up this opportunity after all of my hard work. But the cost of DPT education is too high for what DPT's earn. Every student I know entering a DPT program had their parents pay for their undergraduate education and/or will be living with their parents during the program, so they do not have to worry about undergrad debt and/or take out additional loans to pay for rent. On the other hand, I come from a poor family that cannot afford to help with tuition, rent, and other educational costs. So I will have to rely heavily on loans just to get by. I wouldn't feel comfortable being in ~$250K debt, and I wouldn't enjoy living off of 1/2 or 1/3 of my pay check after taxes and loan debt for the next 25 years. There is more upward mobility and earning potential in nursing, and while it can be a more strenuous job, at least I wouldn't have to be in debt until I'm 53 and I will have the money to take out a mortgage, start a family, go on vacation, and even retire. </p>

<p>Thoughts? Advice? Recommendations?</p>

2

<p>PT is very dependent on the economy while there is always a need for nurses. Go for your nursing degree</p>

3

<p>I don’t write on here often…but I couldn’t miss putting in my 2 cents in for your question. I am an OT and have been one for many, many years. I agree with you COMPLETELY that the commitment of needing a DPT for physical therapy does not make any sense. The salaries will never justify the money required for that level of schooling. You really do learn best by actually doing the job! For that reason, I would suggest that you strongly consider your nursing option, with the NP program if possible. I am advising my own daughter to follow this path! You have insight beyond your years!. Good luck…health care is really a great field.</p>

4

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<p>This is WAY too much debt…way too much!! Your undergrad debt is already huge. Try not to add to it if you can.</p>

<p>Look into “bachelors to nursing” programs. These are for students who have the requisite courses but not the nursing degree, and want it. Your bachelors might put you in that category. My understanding is there are programs like this closer to home than Puerto Rico…check around.</p>

5

<p>I agree-that is way too much debt and you don’t want to spend a large part of your working life paying it off. There is no reason to go to Puerto Rico; there should be plenty of bachelors to nursing programs around. Our local nursing college/hospital advertises just that all the time. And the idea of going on to become a nurse anesthetist is a great idea with incredible potential. Good luck in choosing a program, and even if you don’t go on to PT school, congratulations on your acceptance- I know it’s highly competitive to get in.</p>

6

<p>Bump :frowning: :(</p>

7

<p>Look into ABSN programs (Accelerated Bachelor of Science in Nursing programs - for people who already have a BA degree) - some are super expensive, but others are a good deal if you can get in-state tuition/do tuition reimbursement.</p>

8

<p>It sounds like you recognize that the DPT does not make economic sense. </p>

<p>Nursing is a great profession!<br>
However, IMO the off shore nursing program may be a disadvantage if you hope to work at a hospital in the US. Despite what you hear on the news, there is no nursing shortage. Competition for the higher paying jobs at hospitals is fierce . Jobs in nursing homes and rehab less so. Most hospital jobs require a year of experience. Clinical rotations/internships at the hospital you hope to work at can help. Working as a nurse’s aid while in school also helps improve chances for a job - especially if you are working as an aid at a hospital. </p>

<p>Google hospitals in the area that you would like to live post graduation and check out the requirements for the job.</p>

<p>New Grad RN No Jobs
[New</a> Grad RN–>No Jobs, Then what?](<a href=“New Grad RN-->No Jobs, Then what? - Nursing Career Support”>New Grad RN-->No Jobs, Then what? - Nursing Career Support)</p>

9

<p>First, yes, it is too much debt. Second, if you got your BSN in Puerto Rico, have you explored working in Puerto Rico for your first job. First nursing jobs are the hardest to get but if you worked for a year there you would have experience so you would better be able to get work in the U.S. Third, speaking as an RN, if you decide to go the Puerto Rico route, you want your first job to be in general med surg. This gives you the strongest base for what ever else you decide to do. Additionally, if you learn to speak Spanish, it will definitely serve you in nursing and may help you get work.</p>

10

<p>^^^great suggestion.
There is no nursing shortage now in California. The competition is stiff and only those with experience get hired.</p>

11

<p>I am a big fan of nurse practitioners. One diagnosed a physical condition that could have killed me after doctors blew it off for nine years because I didn’t fit the stereotype 94% of the patients with that condition fit. Physicians seem to rely too heavily on stereotypes and disproven myths they were taught in medical school. Anyway, it seems NP’s are in demand to reduce the cost of health care by paying them less than doctors. As for physical therapists, they rely on referrals. In our state, if you get hurt at work and it’s your back, doctors will try not to document the injury even if it shows on the MRI and then you won’t get the PT referrals or if you get them the workers comp insurance won’t approve it. So, all those people getting hurt at work and needing physical therapy don’t get it, at least here. A nurse practitioner covers a much broader territory and can deal with urgent situations to prevent life threatening situations from developing. PT’s mostly handle things that should be handled but that people might survive without. I am not in the medical field. Just my two cents. Check official statistics to verify or disprove. I will say that when you look at job posting for places like Wyoming and South Dakota, they are full of jobs in nursing, physical therapy, respiratory therapy, etc. If you follow the mining operations, you can make very good money. You can also make good money by being a travelling professional, though you might have to pay for your own benefits doing that. If you go someplace where there is a shortage and get paid well, you might be able to live cheap, pay off debt, and save. Some of those places are beautiful but the employment waxes and wanes with mining employment. If you are single, that might be okay. Rent a room, work extra shifts, etc. at first.</p>

12

<p>SadStudent- It’s obvious that $250K in debt is not realistic, so that option can be eliminated for now. But, you need to deal with the $100K debt you have now without incurring anymore debt. I don’t know what a kinesiology prepares you for, but you need to find work to pay off the loans that you have before you go back to school. </p>

<p>I agree, nursing is a great profession, but reading between the lines, you don’t want to be a nurse. In my experience, the best nurse practitioners were great nurses. Many NPs don’t make as much as staff nurses and a 6 figure salary is not common. Nurse anesthetists make great money but you cannot work and attend a nurse anesthetist program, nor work full-time during an NP program and incurring more debt. </p>

<p>If you go the nursing route, my in-state publics have ABN programs for less the 16K in-state. Since you can’t afford to go back to school full time yet, I would find a state with good in-state publics (I live in NC), work and establish residency, and start chartering a course to accomplish your goals. I suspect you’ll find more affordable PT programs as well.</p>

13

<p>Agree with GT alum. Too many folks are going into nursing these days only for a paycheck. While job security is a good thing, patients don’t need people taking care of them who really don’t want to be there. Nursing doesn’t seem to be what you want. Yes, there are many different possibilities in nursing that don’t involve caring for patients in the hospital, but you’ve got to get through and have some experience first. At least in our area, NPs make more working as staff RNs than as NPs. CRNAs do pretty well.
You’ve got a sizable undergrad debt load. What can you be doing for a few years to pay that off? If PT is really what you want, can you find a less prestigous/less expensive DPT program?</p>

14

<p>I am a pre health student who has many friends who have struggled with choosing between different areas of health care for this exact reason. The schooling for any health field is lengthy and intense, and many of my friends have undergraduate debt even after attending a public university, due to taking out Stafford loans to live off of so they could have more time to study for their rigorous prerequisite classes, as opposed to working through their undergrad. I have a friend who will be attending DPT school this upcoming fall, and had acceptances from several schools that she could choose from (including Emory and Duke), but ultimately ended up choosing a school that was close to home. It wasn’t as prestigious as her other choices, but it wouldn’t leave her with anywhere near as much debt. This is an important consideration, because PT’s do not make enough to be in as much debt as you claim you will end up being in. Have you looked at other schools, or is this school your cheapest option (that you received admission to)? </p>

<p>If nursing is something you are interested in, perhaps you could try obtaining an accelerated BSN program, like many of the other posters have said. You do not to have to move to Puerto Rico to attend one of these programs. I am certain they will have at least one in the state you currently live in, and maybe even one very close to home. I know of many in my state, and two of them are public options. These programs are meant for students who received a bachelor’s degree in anything other than nursing, and it is an accelerated program - you obtain your bachelor’s degree in nursing in 3 semesters (one year). The programs that I am aware of have you registered for class full time in the summer, fall and spring. There are also many throughout the nation, and it would mean accumulating less debt than if you went to DPT school - even if you went to one of the most expensive programs. You seem like the perfect candidate for these programs since you have been interested in working in the health care field for awhile and received your bachelor’s in kinesiology.</p>

<p>Also, if you are interested in advanced nursing practice, there are many direct entry MSN programs, which are similar to ABSN programs in that they are geared towards anyone who has completed a bachelor’s degree in anything other than nursing. What makes these programs different from ABSN programs is that you can obtain your master’s in nursing so you can practice as a nurse practitioner within 3 years, and it is done all at once, instead of receiving your BSN, working for a few years, and then going back to school. Many of these programs allow their students to sit for the NCLEX after one year, and become an RN and allow students to work part time as an RN while they complete the last two years of the program (the masters portion). These programs are extremely competitive, and are located at schools such as Yale, Columbia, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Massachusetts General Hospital, Case Western, and many other places. These programs require strong GRE scores, and favor applicants who have research experience and lots of health care experience, whether it is volunteer or paid (even if the website/FAQ says they don’t! Trust me, they do. And having a bachelor’s degree in a science/health related area is extremely helpful, even though they say they do not discriminate). However, this may not solve your debt problem because these programs are also extremely expensive, and would put you in a lot of debt. Probably not as much as a DPT program, but still quite a bit. These schools are expensive, and are located in expensive areas where cost of living is high. It may be easier to pay off this debt on a NP salary though.</p>

<p>Another thing I want to mention - don’t let people scare you off about becoming an NP, if that is the path you decide to choose. Many people have tried to tell me to not bother with becoming an NP because of the rumor that all NP’s must have their doctorate in nursing by 2015 to practice… But those with an MSN degree WILL be grandfathered in if this does happen. And many of the nursing schools I have spoken with do not believe that DNP will be the necessary degree anyways - as of right now, it is just a goal, and not a mandate. One more final thing you should know about these programs - most of them require you to pick your specialty when you apply, and you cannot switch once you are granted admission to the program. Specialties are typically general NP, neonatal NP, pediatric NP, pediatric acute/critical care NP, adult NP, women’s health NP, midwifery, adult critical care NP, and a few more I’m not sure of. Some programs even allow you to do CRNA direct entry (a lot of them require organic chemistry 1 and 2 as prereqs, though). Anyways, just wanted to tell you about this option - a lot of people tend to not know it exists! Hope this helped.</p>

15

<p>As a physical therapist it makes me very sad that the unnecessary increase of entry level requirements of DPT are now eliminating possibilities for so many gifted potential PTs due to expenses and other excessive requirements. In some ways it has even resulted in less suitable candidates becoming PTs as it isn’t always just book smarts that go into creating well rounded PTs and the financial strain increasingly leads to practitioners focused on the bottom line vs quality care. Way back when, I started out as a pre nursing student who then switched to PT. That was the dark ages when you “only” needed a BS. 30 yrs later I still love and practice my profession. 6 to 7 years and a cost of $200 to 300,000 before being able to practice is definitely a losing proposition. I agree that nursing may be an equally fulfilling and more affordable option.</p>

16

<p>As an NP, I would never discourage anyone from my profession that I love if that is what they wanted. In OP’s case, I suspect it’s not clear as DPT is her first choice and she is “scrambling” to find a viable option. If she get an NP in short order, her debt would be even more crippling than it is now. I don’t recommend having to pay a debt of well over 100K on a NP salary. I also don’t recommend putting in the significant time and effort it takes to be an NP without knowing that is what you want to do for a career and you like that type of work. Really, OP needs to take a deep breath and work towards paying off her debt.</p>

17

<p>There are accelerated BSN programs all over the country, no need to go to PR for that. Another option you might want to consider is getting a masters degree in Athletic Training. It is very similar to PT. It can be a BS degree or many have a masters degree.</p>

<p>I just looked into the PT program at the University of Wisconsin-LaCrosse. For instate students it’s $45,000 for the entire program, books included. Maybe move to WI, establish residency and apply there next year :D. It’s in the middle of nowhere and you won’t have a life though—but everyone else there will because they know that it’s not really in the middle of nowhere.</p>

18

<p>I agree with you coskat. A good PT can make all the difference in a patient’s recuperation so it is sad that the cost of PT programs is making this field father out of reach for students.</p>

19

<p>Nursing is a great profession, but only join if you want to, not because it’s more economical. There is no nursing shortage, it’s very competitive and can be very grueling work, especially for a new grad. Too many people are joining the profession now because they feel it’s a better option in these economic times. Trust me, if your hearts not in it you will not be successful at it. It takes commitment, passion, and it’s in your core.</p>

20

<p>Forgetting salaries, nursing these days is much more flexibile. There are so many different kinds of work, and if you decide you want a change to something different you can go from hospital ER to hospice to public health to school nursing, with many other things in-between. You don;t have to set up a practice, and most employers provide your insurance. (Of course, you can also set up a nursing business.)</p>

<p>The world needs great PTs too. I just think that, these days, nursing is the more exciting career.</p>