Advice Please - College Choices

Parent Cafe
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<p>My question: If a student already knows they will be attending graduate school, would it be more important to have the top flight (good reputation) school as your graduate school, or as your undergraduate school? I have heard it is the graduate school that employers will notice, more so than the undergrad school. True?</p>

<p>Our predictament is this: My D is being recruited as an athlete. She has had to pare down her college choice from a list of many top flight schools. She has narrowed down her choices to Loyola College and Georgetown University. Money is not an issue, scholarships are offered from both. She loves both colleges, and can be admitted to both academically. LC has what she thinks she wants to study. GT doesn't, but she can still get into grad school, although it would mean taking some extra pre-reqs. Do you go to the college with the bigger reputation (GT), or do you go to the college that has the undergrad degree for the area of study (LC)?</p>

<p>I know this might be a no-brainer, but I have had many people say to me when I speak of her choices, "Oh, but it's Georgetown, she should go there!" I feel both are very good schools, and both will get her into grad school. She would have an intense workload at GT, with a higher level of academics and athletic conference. She would still have to work at LC (I don't think as intensely as GT), and the athletic conference is not as intense.</p>

<p>I'd like to know if anyone has some opinions on this, and any input about these schools. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Well, if Georgetown plain doesn't have what she wants to study, then that pretty much eliminates it. However, if she likes Georgetown, and if she could realistically (not killing herself) study what she wants to study (understanding that that is likely to change anyway), and since money is not an issue, it is tough for me to say "Turn down Georgetown, no big deal." I don't believe in being prestige-crazy, but at the same time, I think that there should be some decent reasons (money, fit, academic program availability) to turn down a school as excellent as Georgetown. Not that there's anything wrong with LC, but (as far as I know) it is not really a peer institution to Georgetown, or a close cousin. </p>

<p>There is more to an undergrad experience then preparation for grad school. Your D should choose whichever school will provide her with the best undergrad experience, but understand the pros and cons of her choice. If that is LC, that's fine, but she will obviously have to work hard and <em>might</em> not have the same advantage in grad school placement as a Georgetown grad. If that undergrad school is Georgetown, her degree will have a greater degree of prestige, but if she half-kills herself w/ academics and athletics and grades suffer, she might still not have a big advantage with grad school placement. </p>

<p>Just my two cents--again, I'm not saying to blindly pick Georgetown because it's Georgetown. I'm just saying don't totally devalue the opportunity for a Georgetown education.</p>

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<p>I'd be curious as to what she wants to study, and wonder why Georgetown wouldn't be suitable. And when you say grad school, are you talking about an academic path, law school, med school, business school, or what? And are you saying that Georgetown doesn't have the subject area at all?<br>
- I have heard many families of athletes tell me one thing is very important when choosing a college, and that is make sure it's a college you'd want to attend even if you couldn't continue with your sport. Another thing to consider- grad schools require letters of recommendation, and the more related to your desired field, the better. Maybe in that case, Loyala would be the better choice. Kids do change their minds about their majors though - most kids.</p>

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<p>My D is looking into speech pathology/therapy. Loyola has the undergrad program, Georgetown does not. Her other considerations were physical therapy or occupational therapy. The undergrad degree for those can be fulfilled at both schools with either a biology/human science major. All require either a masters or doctorate. If she does want to study speech at GT, it would require taking extra prerequisite courses before entering a grad program. I also believe clinical experience is recommended/required for all of them.
She loves both schools - the campus, area, coach, and team. My D's apprehension with GT is the high level of academics (and the supposed heavy workload). It's a very selective school, taking only the top 3%, so she would be in with some pretty strong students. She is a good student, take honors and some AP courses, and has decent enough SAT's. But she feels she might be outclassed so to speak.
I just don't know if it is worth it to push her to work so hard for the "Georgetown education". In the end, both schools will hopefully get her the same end result.
Again, any input is welcomed.</p>

5

<p>Nothing at all wrong with Loyola. It's not like your choosing between Georgetown and Randolph's School of Beauty and Toaster Repair.</p>

6

<p>why not have your D call the health-sciences advisor at Georgetown and ask some questions directly about how students have prepared for speech pathology grad programs at Georgetown, how many students have done it recently, etc? She can also ask to be put in contact with a current student (junior or senior level) doing what she wants; if the advisor doesn't know of any, this tells you something too.</p>

<p>This approach does a few things. First, it lets your D take ownership of her future, as opposed to having her highly motivated and trained secretary do it for her (eg. her parents); while its hard to hand these things off to the kids, keep in mind that in 6 months she'll be the one taking the classes and working with the advisor, so she might at well get a feel for it now. </p>

<p>Second, it will give immediate feedback before admission as to how responsive ("user-friendly", if you will) the school will be; if her calls are never returned or her concerns are brushed off, that speaks volumes as to what it would be like as an enrolled student.</p>

<p>Third, consider the possibility that your D may change her career goals. This is pretty common, a lot of kids enter college determined to enter career A but that's only because they have never thought of B thru Z. If your D doesn't have first-hand exposure to the field as either a patient or thru some other means, I'd think of her choice as more an "inclination" than a "decision"</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
I just don't know if it is worth it to push her to work so hard for the "Georgetown education". In the end, both schools will hopefully get her the same end result.

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</p>

<p>If the desire to go to gt isn't within her, I truly would support her choice of Loyola.</p>

8

<p>


</p>

<p>Argh! Y - o - u - ' - r - e, not "your." Argh!</p>

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<p>One of the things that makes Georgetown more prestigious than Loyola is that it doesn't offer para-professional majors like speech therapy. That's just part of what it means to go to a more academically-oriented institution. If you look a layer or two under the surface, I'm sure you'll find that Georgetown offers 90% of the courses Loyola does, and that it's perfectly possible to get accepted at a good graduate program coming out of Georgetown if you've prepared adequately. I have a niece who wants to be a speech therapist and attends a university that does not have a specific speech therapy program; she is not having any trouble qualifying herself for a masters program, except that she has to work a bit to get the kind of internship training that is probably relatively painless to find at a place like Loyola.</p>

<p>There's another, somewhat delicate issue to consider: There will be a huge difference between the students in a speech therapy program at Loyola and the general undergraduate population at Georgetown. With whom will your daughter feel most comfortable, and most excited? The prospective-speech-therapist's older sister is a professional acrobat who has long wanted to be a physical therapist when she retires from performing, When she went to college, she chose a physical therapy program and just hated it -- she thought the kids were narrow and unintellectual, and the courses too watered down. She wound up in a pre-med program at another university, where she was much happier. Her credentials will be fine when she finally goes to get her PT training.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
One of the things that makes Georgetown more prestigious than Loyola is that it doesn't offer para-professional majors like speech therapy.

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<p>[sarcasm]
That's why no smart kid would go to scumbag diploma mills like George Washington, Univ of Florida, UIUC, Purdue, WUStL, UNC-CH, NYU, Case Western, Vanderbilt, Univ Texas Austin, UVA, and both UWs.<br>
[/sarcasm]</p>

<p>By extension, I suppose, you could say that having a political science department is a sure sign of intellectual bankruptcy, since nearly every "less prestigious" college has a program in political science.</p>

<p>JHS, I have no problem with you at all, but saying that a school is "more prestigious" because of the programs it offers is silly.</p>

11

<p>Excuse me, WashDad, but what is your point? There are different models of what college education ought to be. You know that as well as I do. </p>

<p>Apart from state universities -- which have often tried harder to be all things to all people -- the most "prestigious" colleges tend to have very, very limited trade-specific programs. Engineering schools, yes (but not at Harvard or MIT, and Yale shut its e-school down a couple generations ago). Wharton. Cornell is a real exception. There are Ed Schools and Nursing Schools and Public Health Schools, but most of them do not have undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>I know, I'm talking about a thin layer of private universities and LACs, but it's a layer that matters to a lot of people, and it's the layer in which Georgetown sees itself. And it's way too simplistic to say "Georgetown doesn't have a program in my intended major, so I should go somewhere that does." What Georgetown and most of its peer institutions are saying is "On our educational model, you shouldn't be specializing on that level yet." It's like the journalism school discussion that pops up periodically -- Yale has never had a j-school, but I would be happy to match the careers of my Yale Daily News classmates against those of their contemporaries at Mizzou, Northwestern, Syracuse, or any undergraduate j-school program. </p>

<p>I'm not saying that the prestige model is right or wrong, by the way. People can, and do, make their own choices. There's more than one way to get from here to there, and "prestige" may be unjustified or may mean less to one person than to another. It's a moving target. </p>

<p>(And, I didn't include that in my story, but when my niece transferred from PT to pre-med, she went from a program she hated at a relatively prestigious school to one she loved at a relatively less prestigious school. The issue wasn't the university, it was the students that each program attracted. One had only prospective physical therapists; the other was designed for people who wanted to enter any health-related field, including medicine, administration, nursing, pharmacology, etc. My niece was much happier in the second program, even though she knows -- or thinks she knows -- that physical therapy is what she wants to do. </p>

<p>When she initially chose a PT program, it was a mistake for her. That doesn't mean it would be a mistake for everyone. But her experience may not be completely irrelevant to the OP, because she sounds maybe similar: a very strong academic performer, very analytical, who also happens to be very gifted physically and earns her living in a field where most of her peers never finished elementary school, much less college.)</p>

12

<p>Will the classes at Loyola for her major fit with her sports schedule. This is often a problem for athletes, making them choose between their sport or major. I went to school with an athlete who wanted to be an architect. She ended up switching her major to engineering because the architecture classes conflicted with softball practice and didn't want to quit and loose her scholarship.</p>

13

<p>First, I want to thank all the posters on this subject. Many good points have been made, and will be heeded.</p>

<p>I feel choosing a college is one of the most difficult decisions any one has to make (one of many in life). Because when it comes right down to it, it is the basis and beginning of your adult life. Us as parents only want our children to be happy and succeed. What I am trying to find out from personal experiences of others is, is it necessary to be in the high end college to succeed? I guess it is all very subjective when you get right down to it, but I would like to hear of other people's experiences with this.</p>

<p>As one poster said, yes, it would be a shame to pass on a great opportunity like Georgetown, especially when money is not an issue (athletic scholarship). Heck, if money was an issue, it would make the decision easier. </p>

<p>Here's the difference between the two. GT does not have the program. It can be done, but it will take longer to be eligible for grad school (extra reprequisites - more time and $$). LC has the program, although small, will qualify her for grad school. In the event of a change of mind, both schools have studies that will allow for the entry into med, PT, or OT programs.</p>

<p>Both are Jesuit schools and follow the same principles - core courses are required before you delve into your major, which they feel will make a more well-rounded student/adult.</p>

<p>As far as athletics, both coaches have had a player study speech. It was manageable for everyone, so they say. In fact, GT put my D in touch with a former player who is in grad school now. She has had to take extra courses to begin her grad work, although some of the courses in the Linguistics dept. helped her fulfill some, but not all prerequisites. The one thing in favor of LC is, the coach would allow my D to study abroad in the spring of her junior year (the Speech Dept head encourages it). GT would not, it would have to be done in the summer.</p>

<p>My D is very fortunate to have the oppotunity to attend a good school. Being recruited for a sport opens up doors that might not have been opened without it. It also complicates things more, some kids have gotten in over their heads because of the "prestige" of a school. That's why it's becoming such a hard decison to make.</p>

14

<p>Just an update, my D chose Loyola College. She verbally committed to the coach yesterday. We all feel it was the right "fit". Thanks for the input, and lots of luck to all the future collegiates.</p>

15

<p>congratulations to your daughter! It sounds like a good choice for her. :)</p>