This may be premature...

Graduate School
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<p>...but as a senior in high school, I am curious about grad school. My grades in high school have been rubbish due to family situations, but I am far more intelligent than my grades make me appear and I plan on moving past that in college to really, truly shine. However, while the colleges that I am currently applying to are pretty good institutions that will give me fantastic merit money, I am looking forward to graduate school, too. I was wondering, if I were to hypothetically keep my GPA 3.75+ (as it is now with 30+ credits completed during my junior and senior years), what sorts of chances that someone who goes to a state school or likewise similar college would have at a "brand name" graduate school, eg Yale, Carnegie Mellon, U Mich, Stanford, Chicago, and so forth?</p>

<p>So you know, I'm not positive what I want to major in yet. I definitely plan on being a music minor, perhaps as well as a double major in biology and foreign languages. Naturally, I will be looking into graduate schools that are highly ranked in whatever I choose to MA/PhD in more towards my junior year of college, but for the moment, I'm just wondering if it would hurt me to go someplace such as SUNY Potsdam or Bard or Elmira College for undergrad, as opposed to HYPS etc. Furthermore, which is generally regarded as more the "important" degree, undergrad or grad?</p>

<p>I'm not trying to be presumptive, either. Strictly curious. Please don't yell at me about prestige. : )</p>

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<p>Hey, it depends on what you're thinking of studying, but here's my opinion (probably most relevant to science/biology). You don't have to go to a top tier school for your undergrad to get into a good graduate school. What you do need is good experience. In science, this means good research experience (start early) under a good professor. If you apply to a big research university (even if it's not top-ranked) it's easy to find somebody like this to work for. But if you apply to a small non-research oriented university, your chances of getting good research experience (and consequently, letters of rec. for grad school) are much worse. There would still be a few options (summer REUs, etc.) but I would highly recommend going to a big university if you can help it. If not, don't worry - I'm sure you'll do fine. It's good you're interested in grad school at such an early time, but just keep in mind that your interests will change in college and who knows what you'll be doing in 4 years. The schools you mentioned are ones I've never heard of and so I would suspect that they aren't huge on research, but then again, what do I know? You might consider going out of state -certain schools give you pretty good deals on tuition if you have high test scores, etc. I think Arizona is a good state for cheap tuition.</p>

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<p>The next 4 years for you will be such an unprecedented time of growth and change that if you save this post now and look back on it then-- you'll probably laugh your head off. I say probably because everyone is different-- you could be lucky and have a great idea of who you want to be in life already. If so, more power to you. But my best piece of advice is for you to have an open mind about college, especially when you are just entering. This is the only way you can truly do as much as you can, the best you can, in the next 4 years. Where that will be cannot just be based on your idea of it as being the most ideal stepping stone to the next step- which is, in your opinion, grad school. </p>

<p>Grad schools and the world of academia are made up of such a diverse group of people from countless backgrounds (my biomedical lab has an ex-Navy SEAL, a man from Zimbabwe who could have been some kind of chieftain had he not moved to the US, and our professor was a history major in a tiny college.) The moral here is- don't plan the rest of life based on what your idea of it is at the moment- because you'll almost always be wrong. Go to a college that fits you geographically, financially, size-wise, and one that gears toward your interests. You sound like a very intelligent person- so don't wedge yourself into a corner based on some idea of who you'd like to be in 15 years. Just go to a place that will help you explore your interests- and if you find something interesting, participate in some research projects- either at your school or at another one during the summer. Do these things not because they are some part of a magic formula to have a good life (they aren't)- do them because they interest you. </p>

<p>Most of us go to college simply because pretty much everyone we know does- and expects us to. It comes almost as naturally as middle or high school. Grad school is not this way- you should only go if you are really interested in what it is that you're doing. Go to the college that will allow you to figure out what that is- not for grad school, but for life. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Mitmitten -- funny, I've been thinking about Arizona State lately, but I'm not sure about the deadlines and whether I should apply to a school on the opposite coast. I'm mostly applying to small schools, but on visiting, I'm going to ask about research to help narrow down. Thanks!</p>

<p>Bekah102 -- thanks! That was a really helpful and enlightening post. It's true, I really have no idea what I want to do, and college is about that, yes? My best friend is a senior at Wake Forest now, she started off as an English major and ended up as an HES major and music minor. It's amazing how much people can change. I appreciate your post -- you're right, I shouldn't be backing myself into a corner with grad school when I'll probably be graduating five years from now. : )</p>

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<p>I would certainly agree with your assessment that you are intelligent. You also seem to have a heck of a lot more maturity than I did when I was your age.</p>

<p>The advice from MITmitten and Bekah are pretty spot on. Go to a place where you have research opportunities, interact with professors early and often, get a lab job as an undergrad, be in an environment that fits you and don't assume that you will want grad school when you finish undergrad.</p>

<p>A point that I would like to make, you don't need to make up your mind about grad school or even your career path when you graduate college. A large number of people, myself included, work in varying capacities in research in biotech, pharma, public health, government and academia. And the experience makes you all the more competitive when it comes to applying for graduate school.</p>

<p>One more thing- "SUNY Potsdam or Bard or Elmira College for undergrad, as opposed to HYPS etc." I am pretty sure there are more than two groups of undergrad institutions and I certainly think that you could do better for yourself than to assume and 'all or nothing' stance on prestige and competitiveness. My advice, neither Elmira College nor Harvard is going to be right for you if you aren't comfortable. What level of guidance/faculty involvement do you need to start a project and keep it rolling? Can you honestly say that you would like to live in a dorm as a senior in college? How separate do you want your campus to be from the city? How far can you bear to be away from your parents and [lower achieving] high school friends?</p>

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<p>One other thing I'd suggest -don't get into debt, if you can help it. Not sure if your parents are footing the bill, but if not, maybe let financial aid be a big factor in determining where to live. Having no debt when you graduate will give you a lot more flexibility in career choice, etc.</p>

<p>If you go to graduate school, you won't be making money for 5 years of graduate school, and very little money for your 2-4 years of post-doc. Also, having debt hanging over your head will kill any interest in humanities grad school, which can take 8-10 years with little chance of making more than 30k after you graduate!</p>

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<p>Two things:</p>

<p>I was wondering, if I were to hypothetically keep my GPA 3.75+ (as it is now with 30+ credits completed during my junior and senior years)
You won't "keep" your GPA at a certain level from highschool to college. Once you're admitted to college, your highschool record means absolutely nothing to anyone. You start completely fresh.</p>

<p>And in that same vein...
which is generally regarded as more the "important" degree, undergrad or grad?
Only your most recent degree matters, unless it's not in the relevant field.</p>

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<p>Tinyboss -- I know, that's not my high school GPA. That's my cumulative of college classes I've taken through my high school (Syracuse, UAlbany, etc). Sorry, that wasn't really clear. Specifically, I have a 3.7 through Syracuse and a 3.8 through UAlbany. Thanks for the info!</p>

<p>Belevitt -- Thank you for the compliment! I try to be mature, so I'm glad to know that it shows. You've made some excellent points. Happiness is what is most important; and I have been a little cut-and-dry with this prestige thing, primarily because I know that my high school GPA has shut me out of any of the institutions I feel like I would really fit in at.
(And I know those questions were probably rhetorical, but I wouldn't mind a suite as a senior; I would probably need a lot of guidance due to a lack of independent research experience; I wouldn't mind the locale as long as it's close to a city; and I want to be as far from my tiny hometown as possible. ;D)</p>

<p>MITmitten -- I'm footing the bill on my own. I'm hoping for scholarships and grants -- the latter of which I should get a pretty good amount from, being low-income -- and going to an in-state college, if not a SUNY. I mean, I would love to go to a private school (my #1 choice is Vassar) but if there isn't money there, I'm shut out of it. Also, does grad school really take that long? I'm naive, sorry; don't know much about grad school except that I want to learn as much as possible.</p>

<p>Note: I'm interested to see that people are focusing more on the sciency aspect than the language one in this thread. Not that that's a bad thing; it's just funny. What are you guys majoring/minoring in, for curiosity's sake?</p>

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<p>The reason that we aren't focusing on the foreign language interests you mentioned is that, you can only go to grad school for either science or foreign languages and nobody here is studying foreign languages, we are dominated by math and science people on this forum board. As for what I majored in? I graduated from college four years ago, but I double majored in Bacteriology and Hebrew. Believe me, the Hebrew thing was worthless.</p>

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<p>Sounds interesting, though. What a unique combination! Also, I don't mind that people are focusing more on the science -- it has more opportunities, anyway, and that would be my primary major.</p>

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<p>Yeah, if you can get out debt free, that's awesome. I'm going to finish undergrad debt free and it feels sweet - even if it meant living at home for 3 years in also very unfavorable conditions. (Okay, okay, I'm in Canada, and probably pay 1/4 for all of my education than you guys do for one year). </p>

<p>If you know what you want to study, power to you. I knew in grade 9 I wanted to do neuroscience, and now in third year, I'm more in love with it than ever. But tons of people, like 99% don't. So if you change, maybe decide to major in music or languages, it is good. Don't let it scare you, because the reality is, none of us really know for sure. We change, we grow, we are not exposed to everything at once and we often find things that suit us better. </p>

<p>If you do want to get into grad school for sciences, RESEARCH. Seriously, get yourself involved in it as soon as you can. Jump at every opportunity. Don't worry about GPA if you are this smart to be thinking about it all already!! It is not hard to have a good GPA if you love what you study, even if you have idiotic classes or profs who just DON'T give A's, etc.. Research is by far the most important, and to be honest, often times most fun too. </p>

<p>Also don't worry too much about undergrad institution. We don't have liberal arts colleges here, and all, but I mean, you get pros and cons no matter where you go. If you go to a big school, it may be harder to get research opportunities but when you do, they may be from PIs that are more known, conversely in small places, you might develop better relationships with your PIs (my 3rd year courses, some still have 800 people in them, so you can imagine..). But I love it, because even though it is more competitive, the amount of courses offered is amazing and I can find a lab that does research that's almost exactly what I'm interested in. So don't worry too much about this stuff, just make sure you pick a place you want to go to, for whatever reason, city, student activities, program.. it is four years, work hard, but you got to enjoy it too.</p>

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<p>Safetypin00 -- Where do you attend? I was looking into McGill and York University for a time, and they were only $12.5 for American students; that's cheaper than a lot of public places here, let alone private ones. Eeeew.
Honestly, I don't think I did my college search effectively. I focused on a lot of schools that were similar and small LACs; my only really huge institution is Penn State UP (I was going to apply to VA Tech before my guidance counselor made me pull it out). I'm surprised that the GPA isn't as important as the research, but it's good to hear. You made a good point with studying, too. It's four years, true, and I want to enjoy it more than I have with high school. I might be applying for transfers next year, too, depending on how much opportunity is wherever I attend. Is that a bad thing, per se?</p>

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<p>u know what i liek most bout teh cc forums? ppl here actually no how to rite sentences im capable of reading with out gettn a hedahce.</p>

<p>Kudos to you, Skullduggery! :)</p>

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<p>Hey, thanks. : )</p>