Hello,
My Korean friend asked me for some advice on his daughter’s college selection. She is from Korea, and has been accepted by many schools including St. John’s College at Annapolis, Coe College, Drury University, and Abilene Christian University. Her SAT super score is almost 2200. She is a 4th degree black belt and won many competitions, is the first chair (cello) of a local orchestra, the captains of several clubs, and the vice president of the student council. She volunteers to teach English and Math at an orphanage. She also received very generous financial aid packages from colleges. Her family needs to pay about $20k in average for her education. However, the problem is that her family is in financial hardship, and won’t be able to pay for college. She wants to study one more year by herself at home to get higher SAT/AP scores while working to earn money to pay for college. She wants to receive a full tuition scholarship, e.g. University of Chicago, and she thinks one more year of college prep would get her into such college. My advice was to apply for less expensive college, study hard, and either transfer to a higher ranked college. What do you think? Your advice will be appreciated with open arms!
Are you saying that she got financially shut out (all acceptances are to schools which are too expensive)?
Also, is she a US citizen or permanent resident, or an international student?
If money is the issue- why not work for a year while keeping her brain active instead of spending money without improving her financial situation?
You/she/her parents could check on transfer rates to elite schools. I doubt they are high enough that this strategy would work- especially for getting merit money. Many such schools may consider her college courses insufficient to handle their versions of follow up ones. She may need to reset her aspirations.
Some schools like Howard and Louisiana Tech seem to recruit international students with big merit scholarships for which international students are eligible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/howard-us-kathmandu-connection-nepal-emerges-as-top-source-of-foreign-students/2014/08/27/4cd70376-2a20-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html
@ucbalumnus Current Korean economic slowdown hit her father’s business hard, and her family could pay far less than $20k a year, which they are to pay for admission this fall. She is an international student, never been to America. @wis75 I suggested her study at a less expensive school, working on campus. Right, she could check on the transfer rates. She told me that her school had several graduates transferring to “higher ranked” colleges. Nonetheless, I think she needs to reconsider why and what she wants to study at college. If she prepares for college next “school” year, she would probably spend time studying for SAT and AP exams while working. Her list of high ranked colleges usually consists of Ivy League schools and “New Ivy League” schools including U of Chicago. I wonder if her SAT score could reach up in that 2300 zone, though.
Her chances at the Ivies/equivalents are low. Especially if she needs money. Does she know that far more than high test scores are required to get in to those schools (directly or as a transfer)?
Shouldn’t she be trying to get in to some places that are affordable?
@PurpleTitan Unless she does something dramatic - e.g. winning the most prestigious scholastic award, becoming a worldclass Taekwondo champion, and winning an international music competition, her “portfolio” would look fairly similar to what she has now. This is my guess; she wants to raise her SAT scores up to 2300ish, which she believes to increase her chance getting into elite schools. Right, test score is not everything. I have introduced some colleges like University of Minnesota at Morris where the total cost is about $20k. If she gets some financial help from college, she could pay less than $20k!
@fibonaccioso, Could you please clarify what happened with this year’s acceptances and financial aid? Do you mean that the need-based aid that was awarded required a family contribution of $20K and that they were unable to come up with that much? Was the family’s reduced financial situation reflected in their financial aid application?
A few more questions: What is her grade point average? Did she apply to selective schools this year (meaning Ivy-level universities and top ranked LACs)? If yes, was she rejected or were they not affordable?
There are quite a few US colleges that offer need-based aid to internationals. If the student qualifies they can be quite generous. The important point is to look for colleges that guarantee to meet full demonstrated aid for internationals.
If need-based aid isn’t workable, then she’ll have to look for merit aid. Merit scholarships are few and far between for internationals. Better scores will help, but may not be the enough. Grades, extracurriculars, demographic and life experience are all important.
Chicago does offer merit scholarships to internationals, but my understanding is that funding is in the form of partial-tuition with the balance made up of need-based aid.
(The symbiotic relationship between need-based aid and merit aid is difficult to predict. The process requires some trial and error.)
It’s very difficult for international transfer students to get need-based aid. Some schools offer it, but not all. Merit aid for transfers is even scarcer.So if none of her current admits works, then II think she’d be better off reapplying next year, than trying to transfer.
During her gap year she should try to accomplish something significant that would make her interesting to colleges, which could be just about anything that she’s sincerely interested in – as well as helping to support her family.
Since her high school grades are already established I wouldn’t expect a major turn around in colleges that she wasn’t accepted to the first time around, even if her scores improve. It happens, but it’s not likely. If she re-applies, she need to research what’s financial doable and not count on a merit award from a prestigious university.
@monrath
@monrath I asked her about her acceptances and fa. She told me that UChicago put her on the waitlst. Hope and Beloit: TBA. Other colleges aforementioned accepted her. She received fa between $8~25k. I had been told that her family planned to sell their house to support her, but the economic slowdown didn’t allow that to happen. This “slightly new” situation occurred after she received the package. What she worried was that some colleges do not, at least seems not to, accept those international students whose families cannot afford to pay the full even if the schools would offer scholarships later. She thought she had to write down figures indicating that her family could afford to pay more than it could; at least they tried to work around to come up with the money to do so. Her GPA is 3.93 unweighted. Her school does not offer any honor or AP classes since most Korean schools do not except specialty high school such as foreign language high school. UChicago is the only elite school she applied, and she is on the waitlist. After reading “25 tips from the dean”, I wonder if she was a “courtesy waitlist.”
Question: what sort of things should she do to improve her chance while working during the gap year? Do you think colleges would “understand” her gap year? She plays cello and piano and volunteers at an orphanage. She wants to study humanities while her father wants her to become a nurse. Initially she wanted to become a chemist so that she could create a medicine for her sister who suffers a mild case of infantile paralysis. In Korea, many high school graduates take “gap” years to get high scores at College Scholastic Ability Test. Old days, like in 80s and 90s, some students spend 10 years taking the exams. Going back to the girl. Her case is a bit different. She studied at an alternative school, which is somewhat similar to american schools. That could be one of the reasons why she achieved SAT scores while excelling in her extracurricular activities. She wants to work and save money while studying for SAT/AP exams for one year, the gap year, and to apply for elite schools with generous fa.
“Helping to support her family.” - I guess some colleges appreciate her efforts in helping her family and study/prep’ing for college by herself. But, I think since elite college must have seen 'em all already, I am not sure her high SAT scores and “improved” activities would get her into any elites.
Again, my advice is to either go to the least expensive school from the admitted or find lesser expensive schools.
Thanks in advance.
If the family’s financial situation changed between initial application and now, they should immediately FILE AN APPEAL. They should have done so weeks ago.
We did this at S’s first choice school and they responded positively. (Admittedly, the school was Dartmouth, which has extremely generous FA.) H’s employer was going bankrupt and had stopped paying him.
Re selling the house: if the reason is that the family is locked into an unrealistically high mortgage payment that strains the family finances going forward, sure, it makes overall financial sense to free up income and possibly even capital. If it means that they are going to blow their capital on tuition and be left in severely straightened circumstances, that doesn’t make sense. To me.
If she was waitlisted at the U of C, having a 2300 instead of a 2200 is not going to garner her merit money there next year. In addition, the U of C is–or at least was–somewhat notorious for treating the self-employed very poorly on the FA front.
The only good reason I can see to spend time on further testing would be to qualify for an AUTOMATIC scholarship. If there is a school with such a scholarship for which she is eligible as an international student.
She needs to make a new list of colleges where she will get enough money to attend. She should investigate whether the full ride merit scholarships at places like Howard, Louisiana Tech, and others mentioned in the article linked from reply #3 are available to international students. Since the original list of schools resulted in rejections, waitlists, or financial rejections (admitted, but too expensive), it would not be worth applying to those same schools again for what would likely be the same results.
“Her family needs to pay about $20k in average for her education. However, the problem is that her family is in financial hardship, and won’t be able to pay for college. She wants to study one more year by herself at home to get higher SAT/AP scores while working to earn money to pay for college. She wants to receive a full tuition scholarship, e.g. University of Chicago, and she thinks one more year of college prep would get her into such college.”
Lots of Americans can’t pay for college either. But this young woman is unrealistic if she thinks she is going to get a full tuition scholarship from a very top college. The streets of America are not paved with gold, and frankly I think it’s entitled on the part of all these internationals to just act as though they are. Your advice is spot-on - she needs to find schools her family can afford or that will guarantee a scholarship with certain stats.
Given the change in the family situation, it looks like her best option is a gap year. She can’t afford any of her options for this fall, and transferring is extremely difficult for international students who need aid.
That will allow her to more effectively pursue merit-based aid that won’t be affected by changes in her family’s financial situation. Even as an international applicant, her stats would not only guarantee admission but also significant aid at several decent universities. Have her start read through the links in this thread from the Financial Aid Forum, and check to verify which of the scholarships discussed also appy to international applicants: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest
@Pizzagirl, not entitled. Maybe unrealistic/ignorant. Overseas, merit scholarships tend to be the norm while fin aid is unheard of. For instance, the 2 top Japanese privates (Keio and Waseda) both give out a lot of merit money.
Speaking of which, to the OP: Why is she intent on studying in the US? Why not Korea or Japan or somewhere else?
So many US kids have to give up their dream education because of finances. This girl sounds like she is just one of thousands with similar stats- good/great/much better than average, but unfortunately not a spectacular standout head and shoulders above the crowd. Her parental aspirations for her to be a nurse do not sound like they expect more than ordinary things from her. Her wish to study humanities is vague enough that I don’t see compelling reasons for her to study at the undergrad level in the US. Is her intention eventually becoming a permanent US resident, even US citizen? Or perhaps she sees the US through rose colored glasses and thinks everything is better here.
My Indian H was always interested in things British and American- the reason he came for a medical residency. I can understand how some people prefer our culture to theirs. If this is the case she should use the coming year to earn money and research schools with better aid for foreign students. She also will be a stronger candidate if she has more specific goals.
Let me be a bit blunt here - the universities that are likely to give her a near full ride in the USA are not likely to be the ones that will do her a whole lot of good if she returns to Korea. Four years at Kentucky Tech or Western Vermont State University free of charge and then you return to a country which, for the most part, seems to prefer more school recognition.
Let me be even MORE blunt. In my birth country of Elbonia (somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Europe) the majority of people who go to college out of the country are those who could not get in to local colleges given our nasty entrance exam process. With her grades and test scores she should be able to get in to a decent school in her home country or I would hope she does.
I have lots of friends who came with me from my birth country, went to Kentucky Tech and WVSU type schools to keep costs down, went back to Elbonia, and basically gained no advantage from such a degree. After the first couple of waves of good school degree holders, people flooded the WVSU type schools and returned, negating any advantage. This is based on my birth country where lots of people came for school abroad and came back. I do not know anything about Korea, and the system may be different and foreign degrees, especially American, may be valuable.
A classic example - Computer Science (one of my degrees. We did not have Comp Sci so I came to the USA for a second undergrad then grad degree. In four short years, That was a guarantee of good money and the like when I started. Little did I know that in the brief time it took me to get a BS and MS degree, people with BS degrees flocked overseas, mostly to the UK, got a quick 1 year M.S. Comp Sci, came back, and had serious trouble finding a job.
These are things to consider before selling all the family assets to send kids to the USA without thinking why. It’s not like we don’t see it here of course…
I think she has it backwards. As far as I know, international students cannot change their financial status once they are admitted. Colleges are crystal clear on this point: If students don’t apply for aid at the same time that they initially apply for admission, they’re not going to get it later.
I’m still not clear what this family’s situation is vis a vis need-based aid. Generally speaking, need-based aid is easier to achieve than merit aid, but you have to demonstrate need. That’s what I’m not clear on – how much need-based aid this family would qualify for and how much they can realistically contribute.
Net price calculators are not completely accurate for international families but they’re a good starting place. After that, she should contact the financial aid departments of a few schools that guarantee to meet demonstrated need and ask them how much she need-based aid she could expect to receive. She might see if Chicago would give her that information now since she’s on their waitlist. Schools use different formulas for need-based aid, but one or two schools’ responses would give her an idea if she’s in the ballpark.
I can list 25 schools – including U of Chicago and many of the same calibre – that guarantee to meet full demonstrated need for internationals. Only six colleges in the US are need-blind for internationals; the others consider your need for financial aid when they make their admission acceptances, but they still award a significant amount of need-based aid to the internationals that they admit.
I don’t think that her Chicago waitlist is necessarily a token courtesy. Most likely they had other North Asians whom they decided to spend their money on.
Korean is a crowded demographic in US admissions, but this student’s credentials are quite good. The problem is that schools only accept a handful of internationals that need aid, so the odds are low. I think the best approach would be to re-apply next year to a wide net of schools that guarantee to meet full need.
She should also contact QuestBridge for help in targeting appropriate colleges. She should start this process right away, but first she needs to flesh out her gap year plans.
I think this student could easily fill up a productive gap year. She just has to think about how to finish this sentence to her advantage: “I took a gap year because I wanted to . . .”
“Because I wanted to improve my SAT score” isn’t an appropriate answer. She has to get over belief that going from 2200 to 2300 on her SAT will be what gets her over the top at Chicago. It might help a little, but not that much.
I would tend to agree that she should focus on “elite” schools only, and at the same time should try Asian/Australian schools. I think her mistake is that she should have applied to more selective schools like U of Chicago and fewer schools that may have been admissions safeties but turned out to be financially unworkable. That’s the contradiction: schools that are the hardest to get into are often the most generous with need-based aid.
Correction: Forget the QuestBridge suggestion. I thought they covered international students, but it seems only if they attend high school in the US.