I decided to make an account after reading some of the misinformation on this form. There are a lot of posters who attempt to deter other potential applicants from applying. These users quote GPA and SAT scores, and attempt to show why he/she should not apply to Harvard. This is ludicrous. To me, it seems that such users are trying to dissuade others from applying 1. To reduce the competition to gain their own admission and (if they have already been admitted or their child is admitted) 2. Inflate their own self-egos by patronizingly telling others that they are not worthy enough to even be considered for admission.
I graduated from Harvard in the past few years, and even worked in the Admissions Office during my times there. Yes, take my advice with a grain of salt (I mostly did grunt work), but I did get to form relationships with current admissions officers and ask them about the process. I have been working as a private educational consultant since college graduation, and starting the new year, I will become an admissions officer at a liberal arts school in the South.
Folks, let me tell you the truth. Harvard is looking to build a class, and because it feels very secure about its academic standing in the world, does not care as much about GPA/SAT scores as you think. DO NOT think just because you have low grades that you cannot get in. We are looking for leaders and interesting people first and foremost. During my time there, I have met so many people with middling grades and class ranks-- but do you know what they all had in common? They were driven, interesting, passionate individuals with much to offer.
So, to anyone who is using this website and is dissuaded by an anonymous poster telling you that applying to Harvard is a waste of time. Ignore them. They do not want you to succeed. Apply because there is nothing to lose. Take a few hours to write the additional supplement. Work more hours to pay the application fee. (We waive the application fee for those with demonstrated need.) It is truly a lottery, and if you let some random internet poster scare you away from pursuing your dream then you are surrendering to their fearmongering. I studied at Harvard, and trust me, I know how random the whole process is and how “average” and “normal” we just really are.
This post has inspired and pushed me to apply if my ED does not work out. I truly believe I have something to contribute to the world, and Harvard would be the bridge to thus dream. Thanks so much for this. However, do you think the recent waiving of SAT 2s is legitimate? Will not having them really not harm my application?
I don’t believe anyone has any ill intent or is looking to inflate their own ego or their own circumstances.
Yes there are students who are accepted who defy the odds but they are outliers and to suggest otherwise is giving a false sense of hope.
A typical year has about 35,000 applicants of which there is an overall acceptance rate of about 6 percent. If you are not a really exceptional student there needs to be something incredibly compelling about you.
Be aware of this should you apply and keep your expectations within the realm of reality.
Last year, the RD acceptance rate was 2.8%!! I’m not sure why you are encouraging more people to apply and giving them false hope if they are not truly outstanding candidates. I know kids who are currently working in the admissions office and none of them would say “we” when referring to what Harvard is looking for because they simply don’t have that firsthand kind of knowledge. All top colleges are looking “leaders and interesting people”. I’m sure that any admissions officer would tell you that academics come first and foremost though.
For every applicant that applies, it is like they are sitting a room with 33 other applicants and for them to be the “one” that is accepted, they have to be the stand out in that room. Subpar stats or ECs will make that job tougher than it already is. What kind of leader or how interesting would they have to be to rise above the pack if they don’t have the academics?
Finally, how is it that you met so many people with middling grades and class ranks when 90% of the kids at most Ivies (including Harvard) are in the top 10% of the their class? My kid’s experience is the opposite of yours and virtually everyone she’s met deserves to be there academically beyond question.
Not trying to dissuade anyone from applying but just telling it like it is. Again, I view your post as either disingenuous or misinformed.
I completely agree. William Fitzsimmons is on record as saying that 80% of applicants have the GPA and stats to do the work on Harvard’s campus. That implies that 20% of applicants do not have the GPA and stats or are unqualified. So, @veritasstudent: who exactly are those people that Willam Fitzsimmons was referring to? Possibly the academic applicant (non-athletic recruit) with a 1900 SAT with a 3.6 GPA? Someone who is clearly below Harvard’s 25th percentile on the Common Data Set who has a slim chance to none of acceptance. And you want to encourage more of those students to apply? And give those students false hope? Shame on you!
Perhaps OP suffers from some confirmation bias? Knowing students w/middling stats and hearing about some of the deliberations of not-so-obvious eventual Harvard admits can certainly skew one’s attitude. (hell’s bells – I was a middling test taker but got into multiple Ivies!)
But OP never hears the stories of the +90% of admits who aren’t up for discussion and already on the reject pile.
Sure, many kids who don’t possess the typically stratospheric GPA/test score kids get in every year and will continue to do so. And for everyone who does, there are 100 similar kids w/similar stats that get rejected.
It’s funny that this poster’s “Apply! Apply! Apply!” mantra is NEVER repeated by actual recruiting representatives who are Harvard admissions officers on the road or their tour guides on campus.
Let me reiterate several things. I use “we” not as a representative of Harvard Admissions Office, but because I graduated there. I have made a living being a private college consultant and will now work in the admissions office at a university in New England.
Of course, just looking at the statistics, most likely an applicant will not get in. My point was to consider the cost/benefits of applying. Are you really saying 75% and 3 hours on a Sunday is not worth the sacrifice of knowing whether or not you could have gotten into Harvard? This is not spreading false hope. This is telling their kids to try their very darn best and hopefully it works out-- if it does not, so be it-- but at least you will know. If you go through life second guessing yourself, and only applying to “safeties” and never shooting for the stars, you are doing yourself a disservice.
My final point is those admissions statistics you cite are heavily misrepresented. Yes, the average Harvard student has a high GPA because Harvard students come from varied backgrounds. A lot of them are very smart kids who come from very easy high schools-- schools where getting a 4.0 should be expected. If you want to a somewhat competitive high school, even if your class rank is middling and you are getting a 3.0-- I would give it a shot.
All I am saying is that through my private college counselling business, I have seen many kids who people said did not have the grades or the SATs to get into top tier schools like Harvard. The key is to be OK if you do not get into Harvard and cast a wide net of schools. It boils down to this: 3 hours on a Sunday and $75 for possible the world’s greatest educational experience.
Sorry, I neglected to respond to a question about SAT IIs. Yes, I think it shows that Harvard is straying away from just seeing the numbers and looking at the big picture. Elite schools like Harvard do not need to obsess over scores and grades-- they know they can get smart kids to come here. They DO NOT want to dissuade kids with low grades from applying, precisely because several have come and done well. Show your POTENTIAL to do well if you have not done so in high school.
Nuts. If you are unhooked or don’t have some amazing EC, you aren’t getting in with mediocre test scores and grades. Stop dragging more kids down the path of wasting energy on schools they aren’t getting into. This just wastes one of their reach school applications on something unattainable.
In your original post, you say, “I have been working as a private educational consultant since college graduation, and starting the new year, I will become an admissions officer at a liberal arts school in the South.”
In your last post, you say, “I have made a living being a private college consultant and will now work in the admissions office at a university in New England.”
$75 plus fees to have scores sent. My kid spent more than three hours on her Harvard essay alone but I guess it was because she was a serious applicant and was trying to be admitted on more than just a wing and a prayer. Harvard is one of if not the hardest schools in the world to get into. Anyone applying should take that into consideration.
By all means apply though! I’m sure Harvard wouldn’t mind closing the gap with Stanford in terms of most applicants and lowest acceptance rate even though they might publicly say otherwise.
In my opinion, however, I would not PM this poster looking for counseling advice because as far as I can tell their philosophy is the same that applies to the lottery " Hey, you never know…".
I think a valid point can be made that a few people have more of a shot at getting in than they think. I agree that the college admissions office is building a class and it is about how you contribute to the mix. So if you traveled to South America every summer to collect butterflies, wrote music that was played by an elite ensemble, or just get incredible recommendations about your character and interests and talents, have verbal SAT’s in 700’s but math in high 600’s and are only 4th in your class etc. etc.- it is worth applying.
I agree with what most of the posters have said. However I talked to a boy today who got into Harvard but was told by his HS guidance counselor to not waste his time applying since he would never get in. I guess one needs to be careful about who they listen to
However, do you think the recent waiving of SAT 2s is legitimate? Will not having them really not harm my application?