<p>Just going to say that this was EXACTLY what D’s friend’s mother said to me last spring when I mentioned my H’s concerns with our own D attending a southern school. Although she was slightly even more confident of her daughter’s enduring popularity. I will leave it at that except to say it is not about likability or friends per se, it is about southern girl culture. Not bad, not good – just very different than girl culture in the midwest , also not bad, not good… but very different from a southern belle.</p>
<p>DD grew up in the south until she was 13yrs old. I don’t think shes going south unless the $$ is so great that it would be dumb to turn down. There has been some great advise here that has open the door to other options. I would love her to considerd one of the U of Wisconsin but even though we have only lived in MN for 3.5yrs she says “I can’t go to Wisconsin, anyone from MN hates Wisconsin.” WHAT??? Guess that will be true this Sunday when Greenbay plays Minnesota.</p>
<p>In fall 2011, 827 new Wisconsin high school graduates headed for UMN, while 778 Minnesota grads chose UW. Packer gameday is certainly an event, even in Minneapolis ;)</p>
<p>Our nephew got a second merit aid package (even more money) from Hamline after a month or two. Unless you have absolutely ruled it out, don’t tell Hamline “no” yet. A small liberal arts college like Hamline might be a good fit for her; has she visited large and small schools both?</p>
<p>Here, for example, is the breakdown on COA for a Minnesota resident at UW Eau Claire:</p>
<p>Tuition $8,700 (same as for a WI resident)
Room & Board $6,300
SUBTOTAL “Basic Institutional Charge” $15,000
Books & supplies $470
Personal $1,950
Transportation $1,030
TOTAL COA $18,450</p>
<p>Compare that to, e.g., St. Cloud State:
Tuition $7,472
Room & Board $6,994
Books & supplies $1,200
SUBTOTAL 15,666</p>
<p>St. Cloud State doesn’t provide an estimate for “personal” expenses and transportation, but assuming those are the same as at Eau Claire, the total COA comes to $18,646–a negligible difference ($196 difference) from UW Eau Claire. Depending on where the Minnesota student lives, that could easily be erased by lower travel costs. It’s basically 6 of one, half dozen of the other.</p>
<p>The University of St. Thomas is not “usually” cheaper than the University of Minnesota. That may be true for some students, but not for most.</p>
<p>According to UST’s website, total COA there is $46,650—of which $42,565 goes to the university for tuition ($33,040), fees ($747), and room & board (about $8,800 on average), plus an estimated $4,085 in “indirect costs” (books, travel, personal & miscellaneous).</p>
<p>According to its most recent common data set, UST gives out about $59 million in institutional financial aid per year (a little under $48 million in need-based aid, plus $11 million in merit aid) , which works out to an average of about $9,264 for each of its 6,336 undergrads. So that brings the average COA down to $37,400 or so, net of institutional financial aid. As at any school, some students will also qualify for non-institutional aid–Pell grants, federal work-study, and/or subsidized federal loans–but you have to assume those students would qualify for that assistance at pretty much any school.</p>
<p>In contrast, total COA for a Minnesota resident at the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities is $24,718–just a little over half of UST’s COA. This includes $13,524 in tuition & fees (about $20K less than UST), $8,000 for room & board (slightly less than UST), and another $3,194 for books, transportation, personal and miscellaneous. Let’s assume the U is lowballing this latter category, and set it at the same level as UST. That would bring total COA at the U to $25,600 or so. That’s still about $21,000 less than the UST sticker price. Even if the U gave zero FA, the average student at the U would spend substantially less ($25,600) than the average student at UST ($46,650 - $9,264 = $37,386).</p>
<p>But then you need to consider that the U also gives out its own institutional financial aid. According to its 2011-12 common data set, the U gives out about $70 million in undergraduate institutional financial aid per year, including $51 million in need-based aid, plus about $19 million in merit aid. With roughly 30,000 undergrads, that money gets spread pretty thin, but it still works out to about $2,333 per student, on average. So the average COA, net of institutional FA, would be about $14,000 less at the U than at St. Thomas.</p>
<p>Of course, very few students get the average aid figure at either school; some get more, some get less, some get none at all. But it’s really just mathematically impossible, given how much higher UST’s COA is, and how much institutional FA it gives, for most students at UST to be paying less than most students at the U. No doubt some students at UST get a sweet financial deal, but UST is a high sticker-price school that meets full financial need for only 16.5% of its students.</p>
<p>bclintonk–there is an article in the Minneapolis paper about this very topic, read it–you are just wrong. The U of MN is stingy with merit aid for MN residents. The likelihood of getting anything substantial from them is basically zero. With the merit awards alone at the MIAC schools, they ALL come in lower then the U of MN for most students that get into those types of schools–B/B+ students and better. That is just MERIT awards.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you don’t understand how the merit aid process works at private schools. As I’ve said many time, our kids are good students but certainly not cream of the crop students. They applied to 3 state schools and 6/7 private schools. The 2 state schools they applied to (directionals) are coming in at almost $10,000 MORE than the private schools they applied to–ALL merit awards, NO FA. This is COMMON for students around here. NONE of their friends that are attending the U of MN are going for less then what they are paying at the private schools they have been accepted into, NONE. Income levels, grades, etc. are all on par with each other. Out of their circle of friends, they have about 10 kids going to the U of MN, mostly to IT, They are ALL paying basically full freight–a couple of them got “scholarships” in the $500-1000 range. One of their friends will probably get a full financial package because of the income situation at home, the rest are going to be paying $25,000+. Our kids are “laughing” their way to the bank with the $9000 tab, maybe, that they will have to pay…</p>
<p>Taking the “estimated travel costs” out–assuming we are talking kids that live in the metro area so travel is irrelevant—the WI Schools are less expensive already and you don’t pay for books. Merit awards are more generous, although small in comparison. Price out the SD schools for MN residents too–shocker there too…</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who has posted. Steve is right St.Thomas is offering merit aid just on gpa and act score that would make it only around $2,000 more a year the U on MN; I think this is a better option due to the smaller class sizes but DH and DD love the U of MN. Truman state in MO is offering the best deal of all the midwest schools and looks really good on paper, we will visit there this summer. If I was getting my way DD would go to either Wisconsin Eau Claire or La Crosse and think about transfering to Madison for the last two years. One thing I have to keep reminding myself of is that I’m not going to college she is! We will all work together and hopefully everyone will be happy with the outcome.</p>
<p>newfaith–I love Truman (as we have chatted about before) :). Eau Claire is also on DS’s list of schools. They have a fantastic program in his major, he loves the campus and all the “extras” they have to offer. Fantastic music program for anyone considering music performance or music education. LaCrosse is one of the prettiest areas of the country. Until it is all said an done, you just never know until you get the paperwork in March.</p>
<p>i would just add, please look at uab as more than just a “merit package” this is an excellent school, strong on research, great place for premed imo. not talked about a lot on here, but there is definitely more to it for a student than being “cheap”… look into the sci tech and other honors colleges, courses offered, faculty, class sizes etc. it might not be right for your D, but it has a lot to offer.</p>
<p>Right now your D should be concentrating on improving her gpa. A better gpa will make her more competitive and improving grades will offset her current gpa weakness. She can’t count on getting into either the MN or WI flagships with her current credentials. She may be better off at a smaller school as well. She not only needs to be accepted at a school but she needs to succeed once she is there.</p>
<p>LOL. What makes you think I don’t know how merit aid works? I think I know perfectly well how it works: some people choose to be a big fish in a small pond, and I’m not going to criticize that choice. But I’m also numerate enough to be able to see that only a small fraction of the students at the schools you’re talking about are getting merit awards big enough to reduce COA below the UMN in-state level. According to the University of St. Thomas common data set, for example, UST awards about $11 million in non-need-based (merit) scholarships per year, with an average award of just shy of $14,000. Sounds pretty impressive. But doing the math, $11 million doled out at an average level of $14,000 means that only about 785 or so students—fewer than 200 per year-- are getting merit awards, out of an undergrad student body of about 6400; so that’s about one in eight students getting merit aid. And the average merit award of $14,000 is not enough to bring down the cost of attending St. Thomas to the cost of attending UMN-TC. No doubt some fraction of those merit recipients get larger-than-average awards, in some cases enough to bring their COA below the UMN COA; but mathematically, that must mean other merit recipients are getting correspondingly lower-than-average merit awards, and most of them will pay more to attend UST than it costs to attend UMN-TC. Others may be able to get there by stacking merit awards on top of need-based aid. But given the comparative sticker prices and how much each school invests in need-based and merit aid, it’s hard to see how more than about 10% to 20% of students at St. Thomas could be paying less than they’d pay at UMN-TC.</p>
<p>That may be a good deal for those students who do pay less at UST, and obviously UST calculates it’s a good deal for the University to land those students by luring them with merit awards. But it comes at a price; UST is a high sticker-price school that can’t afford to meet full financial need for more than 16.5% of its students, in part because it’s setting aside substantial sums to award to a handful of merit recipients.</p>
<p>And some people would say there are also trade-offs for the students. Middle 50% ACT scores at UST are 23-28, with an average of 26. At UMN, middle 50% ACT scores are 25-30, with an average of 28. That may not seem like a huge difference, but it means an average student at the U would be a top quartile student at UST. Only 15% of UST’s 2012 entering class, about 217 students, had ACT score of 30 or higher; at the U, 30% of the entering class, or 1,650 students, scored 30 or higher. And the U’s class is stronger at the bottom, too; most of those in the bottom quartile at the U would be in the middle 50% at UST. Fully 30% of UST’s freshmen had ACT scores of 23 or lower; at the U, only 9% did. That’s got to make some difference in the classroom. Not to say a student can’t get a good education at UST, and there certainly are some advantages in smaller class sizes, more personal attention from faculty, and so on—though those same advantages are also available at private schools higher up the food chain, at a higher price. Different people will weigh those trade-offs differently, and not every student, nor every parent, will see the “big fish in a small pond” strategy as clearly superior, even with the merit aid. In fact, most top students don’t go that route, though some certainly do.</p>