<p>Some people seem to be holding the professor responsible for the quiz software. I’m sure that the university licenses and administers course management software, and it would be unwise for a prof to use anything else. The prof probably knows how to set up a quiz, but wouldn’t have any idea what happens when two students log in from the same computer, or know anything about what bugs it has unless the IT staff has announced it. I’m surprised that the student has been having this conversation or email exchange with the IT staff and then is left to relay the information about system bugs to the prof–I would think that the prof would have been cc’ed on the emails about this between the student and IT, or an email would have been sent by IT to the prof. So I’m wondering if something is missing from the story we are being told here.</p>
<p>Some other people have expressed the expectation that faculty members will give aresponsible student the benefit of the doubt on issues, implying that they wouldn’t for an irresponsible students. Personally, I have consistent policies and apply them equally to everyone. The last thing I want to be doing is deciding that student A is lying to me while student B is telling the truth. Unfortunately, the large number of students who are happy to lie if it will improve their grade means that policies are consistently applied in ways that do not give any student much benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>I don’t give on-line quizzes, but I do have on-line homework submission and tell students that they are responsible for submitting homework on time, the time is determined by the server, not their computer, and I don’t give any extensions (not for only 5 minutes late, not for 5 seconds late). I tell them they should expect the system to be slow and unresponsible right before a deadline so if they wait until the last minute, it is at their own peril. This is all on the syllabus and explained on the first day of class, and again when the first homework is assigned. I also drop the lowest grade.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, it is still a rare semester when some student doesn’t turn it in late, and then come begging for an extension because they were only 10 minutes late. This is not a useful thing for them to do. It demonstrates either that they don’t have enough respect for me to believe that I mean what I say, or they weren’t paying attention for any of the 3 opportunities they had to learn the policy, or they think that rules don’t apply to them.</p>
<p>When I first became a university professor, I was very laid back and understanding. I accepted every student’s excuse and permitted students to submit work right up to the day grades were due. I soon discovered the more flexible you are, the greater the likelihood was that some students would take advantage of the situation. That is unfair to the students who meet deadlines. In this situation, if the student was usually conscientious and previously punctual, I would be more understanding and allow her more time to complete the test. However, some IT departments make it difficult for a student to log in for a test after the deadline. That might be the problem in this case. </p>
<p>BTW going to the department chair or dean is a last resort and is a poor choice in this situation as: 1. At the college level, educators are given greater autonomy over their classes. 2. If your D plans to take any more classes with this professor or in this department she will annoy faculty members who may respond vindictively in the future. Sometimes, it is better to relinquish the battle in order to win the war.</p>
<p>Okay, hold on!!! lol. She is good at planning, time management and prioritizing. Since none of us know what else she needed to do this week, we can’t say whether her priorities were straight or not.</p>
<p>As the OP and her mom, I am of two minds. First, I don’t get the thinking of it being a problem for someone to use her computer to log onto the program. From what I understand, it isn’t just for test taking but is something that all students have accounts with. Someone else logging on is like someone asking to use your computer to check their email. Secondly, The program is supposed to intercept multiple users and not allow log in if someone’s acct is open. It didn’t do that so my D had no idea that their was another acct open at the time, until it booted her off 3/4 of the way through the quiz. Thirdly, IT knew there was a problem and there had been a problem for a while. The girl at IT gave her name to my D and told her to tell the professor that this had been an ongoing problem.</p>
<p>Having said that, I still think it might just be a case of tough luck and she will survive.</p>
<p>And Younghoss, yes she is hardworking and responsible. Accepting responsibility is not new to her and if she goes to her professor and does that, hoping for some mercy, that does not make her a bad person. It’s not really a favor, since the deadline was 7, not 6:50 .</p>
<p>So basically what you are saying is that the administration chose to do nothing and allowed the kids to run rampant. There is a separation between schools and the police. </p>
<p>Chancellors regs on school safety (Yes, there were SSA’s when you attended middle school/HS in the late 80’s).</p>
<p>A violent activity that happens in school is handled by both the SSAs and the school in conjunction with the DOE discipline code. Just a couple of days ago, a student threatened a teacher. The a report was placed in OARS and the recommendation was the the student serve a one year suspension at a suspension site and then be involuntarily transferred. </p>
<p>The student was arrested, because the teacher reported the incident to the SSA. she then pressed charges at the precinct, went to court and had an order of protection placed against the student. Because the student was in her class, we had to change the student’s program to remove him from her class (we even went a step further to change his program to the extent that he would have no reason to be on the floor where her classroom is located).</p>
<p>My D has had classes where there were deadlines for online work and quizzes, and the professors told the class ahead of time that if they waited until the last minute it was at their peril, precisely because of the possibility of computer problems. Needless to say, the profs were unsympathetic if there was a last minute (or even last day) problem. One prof did say that if a problem persisted for 24 hours (meaning the student had to have tried to complete the quiz or assignment at least 24 hours before the deadline) he would make an exception to his “no late work or test” policy.</p>
<p>Did your D’s professor have a stated policy? Had he warned them about waiting until the last minute? FWIW, my D waited until the last minute more than once, so she would have been out of luck had there been a computer problem. I think even with all the warnings, a lot of kids still procrastinate.</p>
<p>Op, i think what they meant was that there’s a big difference between say you logging in on my personal pc to check your email and you logging in on My personal pc to go into online test software. The other person in theory could be standing right behind the person and writing Down all the questions… Then log in on the same computer and take the test, fully knowing what is on it.</p>
<p>Obviously this was not their intent but this is why soft ware like that should not even allow it in the first place. </p>
<p>I too work in IT. Chances are the test program is not developed by the school and they have to deal with the IT dept of which every company made it. You can’t just flip a switch to get software fixed. You need change requests, development, testing, etc. it very well could take months to fix that glitch.</p>
<p>That being said, i had teachers who had a similar policy. No excuses. i remember one class where we had a project due at six pm but you could drop it off at the prof office any time during the day and he was waiting there to collect them. Chasses after five were canceled due to weather on due day. He let us know ahead of time that our project still needed to be in his office by six and that he would be there to collect it. I do believe he allowed commuters to email him three project and he would print it… But he needed the email by six. Ten percent taken off for each day it was late… He didn’t want anyone getting an extra night to work on it when everyone else was on time. </p>
<p>The same could be said for the parties who opposed my lawyer friends and their clients and yet forfeited because they showed up ridiculously late to the courtroom session or worse, never bothered to show up at all. Didn’t matter…the judge ruled against the latter party for being late/no shows. </p>
<p>Or…about those who were late in filing their taxes, finishing a work project, etc…etc…etc. </p>
<p>All that matters to that Prof. and to some of us is that your D didn’t seem to exhibit those qualities in this particular instance. She may end up having to take that B to learn not to wait to the last minute. </p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>Yep. That’s exactly how it seemed judging from how despite complaints from victims, the teachers/admins seemed to be cowed by the bullies’ parents who were the “Not my angel” types and nothing was really done with them as they remained and continued their violent behavior. </p>
<p>There was also a minor admin/teacher who tried to paint the bullies as “misunderstood”, “disenfranchised victims”, and that we may have “provoked” them. And then he wondered why we looked upon him with utter contempt. </p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that the late unlamented USSR also had a Constitution which supposedly guaranteed rights of free expression and other freedoms similar to what’s offered in the US Constitution. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, in reality…the USSR Constitution was well-known to be a dead-letter in practice. </p>
<p>Like all constitutions, laws, or regulations…they’re only as good as their levels of enforcement and implementation at all levels. </p>
<p>To be fair, I’ve heard from parents, current school kids, and friends who teach in the NYC public education system that the DOE since the late '90s onward have gotten much more pro-active systemwide regarding school violence and bullying than they were back when I was a middle school kid.</p>
<p>Fendergirl, I agree with you in general but that is why the software is not supposed to allow multiple logins. That’s the part that didn’t work.</p>
No more than holding the D responsible for the software. If the professor decides to use a software than he/she needs to know that it works most of the time. When it fails, through no fault of the student, then some special consideration needs to be given. This is not the case that the D went over alloted time and is now asking for special treatment. </p>
<p>I don’t understand why professors feel they should be given so much autonomy that they could do whatever they want. I would think if they were being unreasonable then they would need to answer to their boss (dean) just like everyone else.
<p>Cobrat,
your analogy doesn’t hold. She wasn’t late, she didn’t not show. A better analogy would be if your client would have been on time but his car broke down. And yes, AGAIN, I will agree that she may still need to take the B.</p>
<p>ETA: Sometimes I think that some posters hear read half a post and then jump in without understanding the full situation.</p>
<p>And could the NYC public school debate move to another thread?</p>
<p>What my HS homeroom/US govt/US history teacher emphasized with my class with her late policy is that we must plan ahead for all contingencies or face the possible negative consequences when Murphy’s law comes into play. </p>
<p>Most Profs/TAs friends I know tend to be very unsympathetic if they gave someone a week to complete an assignment/exam and failed to do so because they waited to the last minute to start and Murphy’s law messed them up. Computer issues of this type would be one of the things they’d expect students to account for when they budget time to complete that assignment/exam.</p>
<p>Profs/TAs also have to consider the overall fairness of providing the extension…especially if most/all the rest of the classmates managed to complete the exam well before that deadline lapsed without issues. </p>
<p>Why should the “wait to the last minute type” student be allowed an extension because something happened at the last moment when most/all the other classmates had the foresight to complete the exam without such issues? Would that not be unfair to the rest of the class who didn’t wait to the last minute?</p>
<p>I’ve been out for a while - wow, lots of judgment in this thread. I still think it’s unfair (and I see courts all the time allow for “issues”, especially when its an attorney asking for the exception) but I also think some professors like to teach lessons outside the classroom as well. Even if she does get to retake the exam I bet she won’t wait until 1 hour before the deadline again to take the next test. I still hope she gets the A.</p>
<p>She’s not a “type”. Again this is out of character and she must have been really overextended to have tried to pull it off. And once again…I agree, life isn’t fair, she should have accounted for tech issues, she’s responsible for waiting until the last minute.</p>
<p>She has this particular professor for two classes this semester. She has (had) an A average in both classes. The teacher knows her. This teacher also refused to meet with her outside of office hours (she’s in classes during this profs hours) and told her to contact the TA.</p>
<p>Her only hope now is to possibly consider quietly asking other classmates if they encountered similar computer issues, hope at least half of the class did, and are willing to go as a group to the Prof. If so, that…combined with her prior record with this Prof may help her and other classmates persuade Prof for a possible retest. </p>
<p>On the otherhand, the fact the Prof refuses to meet her outside of office hours considering her circumstances is not a hopeful sign of the Prof’s flexibility. In terms of office hours, the Prof’s wrong to not make accommodations for your D.</p>
<p>Not to derail the thread, but since OP raised this issue: I am not surprised that the prof will not meet with the D outside of office hours; that is what TA’s are for, really. Thankfully I teach at a school that does not offer a grad degree in my department so I don’t have TA’s, but classes that have TA’s are generally quite large, and if the prof met with every student outside of office hours, that could get extremely time-consuming just even trying to schedule the meetings. Now if the student has a problem that the TA can’t resolve, then the student should ask again to meet with the prof and explain that she already met with the TA.</p>
<p>How could she not know that another session was open if she let someone use her computer to do their test? I’m confused. Did she just hand out her log-in and password and someone was using that on another computer and the session was open and then she logged into her computer? Something isn’t right here.</p>
<p>Someone else didn’t use her ID, someone else used his/her own ID. The program didn’t “like” having multiple people accessing the system from the same IP address, which is bizarre. I have a feeling this system is a portal where students could check their emails, grades, homework and take online test. At my kid’s school it is called Blackboard.</p>
<p>It is very easy not to know if there is another session open. I often have multiple browsers open, sometimes I would minimize a browser and forget what I have open on that browser.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand about this scenario is this: If two people are logged on to take a quiz from the same computer at the same time, are they able to see each other’s answers, or not?</p>
<p>I had the impression that the OP said that the program could be use for multiple purposes, so maybe it is something like Blackboard. But before giving an opinion on this, I’d like to know what the other person was doing with the program, why the other person didn’t log off, and why it wasn’t evident that the other person didn’t log off.</p>
<p>In general, I am quite sympathetic about hardware/software problems. But in this case, I feel that I still can’t tell what exactly happened.</p>