<p>so now I know my pattern is helps, hurts, hurts, helps, and hurts :(
my school's horrible! They barely graduate AA students, and if there are any they end up getting kicked out before graduation...it's really bad..</p>
<p>So given what 2collegewego said, how much would it help me,if at all, given my stats and where I'm applying?</p>
<p>Waiting to Hear: HYP (March 31st 5:00 P.M.), Brown,UPenn, Duke, Georgetown, UChicago, Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Tufts </p>
<p>Stats:
SAT: 2110(700 CR,670M,740 W)
SAT IIs: 650 Math I, 700 Bio M, 800 World History
ACT: N/A
GPA: 3.7 weighted, 3.45 unweighted
Rank: unknown, but probably top 20%
AP Courses: USGov(11),Macroeconomics(11),Physics B(11), European History(11),Lit and Composition(12),Spanish Language(12),Biology(12),US History(12),BC Calc(12)
Other stats: Diagnosed with ADHD in 10th grade</p>
<p>Subjective:
Extracurriculars: Orchestra(cellist),co-principal (9, 10)principal(11, 12)
Track and Field: four year varsity competitor, school record in Triple Jump(11th grade, outdoors)
Forensics: (international extemporaneous speaking( NJ states 5th place),Harvard Octafinalist(10th,11th,top 48 at largest debate tournament anywhere, district finalist in IX, and Congress
Academic League: raised team to third in county in 11th grade, led team to 1st in county in 12th grade, league high scorer</p>
<p>Essays: my english teacher liked it,and my english teachers have generally liked my writing alot( hope I haven't jinxed it)
Teacher Recs: pretty confident about two, not too sure about a third one.
Counselor Rec: not too sure
Hook (if any):URM,decently high-achieving LD student , Black Male, son of immigrants(?), education major(?)
Location/Person: NJ
State or Country:NJ
School Type: public
Gender: M
major strengths: Black Male w/ decent marks(better than average SATS), decently high-achieving LD student,
major weaknesses:inconsistent grades
Volunteer/Community service: Music Therapist at local veteran's hospital, student instructor and tutor in Music and other subjects througout school district</p>
<p>why you think you were accepted/rejected/defered where you were: no rejections yet... hoping for at least 9 out of 13...</p>
<p>significant awards/recongitions:
National Merit Commended Student(210 PSATS(65R65M,80W)),
National Achievement Finalist(and as far as I know, not a scholar)
AP Scholar w/Honor,
Governor's School of Arts nominee,
Paul Robeson Youth Achievement Award in the Arts
MVP of Symphony Orchestra(11th)</p>
<p>summer activities: researcher for Tufts New England Medical Center, co-designer of series of educational guidlines for Mass General Hospital </p>
<p>would AA help me? would I need it? or will it not help me at all?</p>
<p>Alright, you already posted your chances & I don't believe it was necessary to add it to this discussion.</p>
<p>To this discussion I'll empart these words from Tupac</p>
<p>You see you wouldn't ask why the rose that grew from the concrete
had damaged petals. On the contrary, we would all celebrate its
tenacity. We would all love it's will to reach the sun.
Well, we are the rose - this is the concrete - and these are
my damaged petals. Don't ask me why, thank God nigga, ask me how!
Hahahaha...</p>
<p>This is what I think of when we talk about Afirmative Action</p>
<p>to ptgori: also, I was just wondering, why exactly was posting my stats as a example unnecessary to this discussion? Trust me, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm only wondering why from looking at the numbers as a scenario, if further discussion of the system which many in our society attribute to URM attendees of prestigious institutions could be driven. So I didn't mean to just post a "chance me please!".I meant to understand what it means for me, since the whole point of the thread is to discuss the whole spectrum of what affirmative action means, in both theory and application. I only wanted to further discuss Affirmative Action: a crux word used to describe college admissions of minorities in my heavily white/jewish/asian school;however, it may have inadvertently come off as a "chance me please!" type of post.</p>
<p>on second thought, It probably wasn't necessary to post my stats here on this discussion, sorry everyone, I was anxious. If it disrupted the discussion, then I'm sorry.</p>
<p>I believe AA was necessary when it was first introduced, and it still is effective to some extent today, but the fact of the matter is that although blacks still, on average, are far worse-off socioeconomically than their white counterparts, we live in a day and age where black achievement is not uncommon. </p>
<p>So, in light of all this, I really believe that AA should be redirected toward low-income students and away from strictly blacks and hispanics, where it will make the most effective difference. It's true that First-Gen's get some advantage in the process, but the vast majority of schools out there are "need blind", and low income doesn't even come into the picture. </p>
<p>A wealthy black family, I feel, shouldn't be given the added benefits of affirmative action when it was instituted in the first place to raise poor minorities out of unfair conditions. Wealth and money, I feel, is a far greater privilege than race in the 21st century. An AA program geared toward income would still stand to benefit a huge number of Hispanic and African-American applicants, while the Caucasian and Asian families who have to endure the same hardships that living in a poor community brings would stand to benefit as well.</p>
<p>Those are just my thoughts.</p>
<p>I find this topic and this thread quite entertaining. As an African American born and raised in the ghetto of Los Angeles it was a huge culture shock for me when my family moved into a predominately white neighborhood. I was always called the "white" girl because of the selection in my vocab. Many African Americans that I grew up when I was little did not have the opportunity to leave that god-forsaken place and get to go to a school where the teachers don't need to wear bullet-proof vests and students that aren't doing drive byes everyday. I think that when you get to experience the life of two different places and societies you get to understand why colleges do what they do. When I took AP Econ I learned that companies don't become big because they care about the small people but instead for the well-being of themselves. </p>
<p>Let's face it and get with the facts. Affirmative action was not only intended for African Americans and Hispanics but any type of "underrepresented" minority in the nation. As time as continued to progress or if you look at the statistics of any school you will see that it is the African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics who lack the most number of admissions. It depends on what they are basing the word minority on. Most schools have at least 40% Asians and whites if not more where there are only 3% blacks, 14% Hispanics and maybe >1% of Native Americans. </p>
<p>Whether people like it or not schools like diversity. Besides the entire college admission process is a load of ********. If you are a legacy, or rich it doesn't matter now does it? It's a sure shoe in so I suppose it would be if you don't get to reek the benefits of AA. </p>
<p>I hate when people think I get scholarships or awards because I'm black. There are plenty of well qualified minorities that have the same or even higher GPAs and SAT scores. I think those days need to end</p>
<p>Onye- I feel the same way! On February vacation I found out I won the National Girls Incorporated Lucille Miller Wright Scholarship, and then out of the people who won the national scholarship (30), 4 were chosen to go to Washington, D.C. for the Girls Rights week event at the White House, and to attend the Girls Incorporated National Luncheon (I was one of them) When I told my classmates, they were like "OBVS, you're black remember?" I was so mad! And then when my school got an email saying I was a finalist for the Best Buy Scholarship last week, they said the same thing. Then, when one of my teachers who recommended me for the CURE program at the Harvard Dana Farber Cancer Center received an email of my becoming a finalist, they said the same thing! I know I didn't receive any of these awards or even recognition because of my skin color! It was because of my hard work I've done to show how dedicated I am to myself, and society. It gets on my nerves that they can't just ingest the fact that there ARE minorities out there who work there ass off! And some of those minorities are us! :)</p>
<p>has anyone seen the black list on HBO?</p>
<p>At first, I wasn't the biggest fan of AA because people would always dismiss my achievements. In this documentary though, Colin Powell said something that I thought was funny and has changed my perspective. He said:</p>
<p>"Very often I've been given assignments that were good assignments that people said, 'Well, you know why Powell got that job. They needed a black guy.' And-- my answer to that when I hear these rumors coming back, 'You know, that's why you got the job, 'cause you're black and they needed a black.' I just smile and say, 'Well, fine. For 200 years I didn't get the job because they needed all whites. So I'm not gonna argue about that. The only thing that's going to count now is not, 'I got the job' or 'I didn't get the job' or 'How I got the job.' The only thing that's going to count is my performance."
-Colin Powell</p>
<p>Oh my gosh Colin Powell is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>he is INDEED. Nice quote, thanks for reminding me how much of a role model he is to young black men and women :)</p>
<p>If only I could be like colin powell someday!</p>
<p>I, honestly, don't get the point of AA.
In my opinion, they should just stop asking for your race on college apps - as well as job applications. It's the only way you'll truly get equality - when noone knows or cares what race you are.
I firmly believe in equal opportunity, as my family is very poor and I certainly didn't have the opportunities other rich people had. But I dealt with it. I was smart, I worked my ass off and I realized the only person who'll help you in life is yourself.</p>
<p>If a smaller percentage of [insert minority group here] goes to college than another group and the group makes up a smaller percentage of the population [Hint: the word minority], doesn't it make sense a smaller number of those students will attend a specific college?</p>
<p>My high school could only have been gotten in through a competetive examination. Only 3% of applicants got in. 65% of the school is asian. I'm NOT asian. And you certainly would never find me saying that asians are 'overrepresented' at my school. No, they deserved those spots because they were smart.</p>
<p>As for the argument 'Anyone that got in to x college got in because they were x college material, not because of AA'. If that is true, why do you want AA to stay? It lowers the standards for that ethnic group, which lowers the overall standing of the college. The very same argument I just used is sometimes used to refute this, but as I said, if it does not give certain ethnic groups an advantage, what DOES it do? Nothing? Then why exist?</p>
<p>Affirmative Action, is in and of itself racist.
A mixture of races does not make diversity. We are all human beings and thinking that different skin color makes some 'different' is actually racist. Every person is different - you'll find that we all come from different cultural backgrounds and you'll get diversity no matter what. </p>
<p>tl;dr: AA's logic is flawed. Different races =/= diversity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If a smaller percentage of [insert minority group here] goes to college than another group and the group makes up a smaller percentage of the population [Hint: the word minority], doesn't it make sense a smaller number of those students will attend a specific college?
[/quote]
About 12% of the US population according to the 2000 US Census is African-American; about 12.5% is Hispanic. When colleges even come close to reflecting this in the classes they admit (and not many do), they usually tend to practice some type of AA. So please don't think that minorities are represented at a higher percentage at elite colleges than they are in the population as a whole, as that is generally untrue (Stanford is a notable exception, with Hispanics making up 15% of the student body).</p>
<p>
[quote]
It lowers the standards for that ethnic group, which lowers the overall standing of the college. The very same argument I just used is sometimes used to refute this, but as I said, if it does not give certain ethnic groups an advantage, what DOES it do? Nothing?
[/quote]
I wouldn't argue that AA doesn't give certain ethnic groups an advantage. I would, however, argue that the standards aren't LOWERED, exactly. The beauty of holistic admissions is that adcoms look at an applicant individually, and in context - not against a certain bar of SAT scores and GPAs. </p>
<p>
[quote]
A mixture of races does not make diversity. We are all human beings and thinking that different skin color makes some 'different' is actually racist. Every person is different - you'll find that we all come from different cultural backgrounds and you'll get diversity no matter what.
[/quote]
This is something I don't understand. How does skin color not influence diversity? Do you truly believe that your race has had no impact on your life, your viewpoints? Your race has had nothing to do with your culture? How is it racist to think that a different skin color makes someone different? Since when did difference in and of itself become a bad thing?</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that AA does make it easier for minorities to get admitted. For those of you who don't agree with it, if it were abolished how do you propose colleges maintain a class that at least comes close to reflecting the demographics of the US? Or would you argue that a 'colorful' ( :) ) class is unnecessary?</p>
<p>I need AA to get into Princeton and Dartmouth. LOL!</p>
<p><em>sigh</em> EmekChris....</p>
<p>I was joking. Maybe I should have put that at the end of the statement.</p>
<p>I never said elite colleges overrepresent minorities. You're misinterpreting what I was saying.
For the purpose of simplicity, I'll divide the population into red and blue.
Red is 80% of the population, Blue is 20% of the population.
80% of Red people go to college, but only 50% of blue people go to college.
Now, is it really fair if College X practices AA, so that 20% of their student body is Blue?
It is hardly fair that they do that, as while it may give 'equal representation' to the population, it gives a Blue Applicant a better shot, hardly 'equal opportunity'.</p>
<p>My point is that while race may play a factor in diversity, it isn't fair to make it the ONLY factor in diversity. Diversity is an ambiguous word and applying it solely to race is rather... not so intelligent.</p>
<p>For example, there's an african american girl at my school. She's charming, vivacious, funny and most of all, brilliant. She got a perfect SAT score on the January SAT. Leaves many people in the dust here, to be honest, in terms of academics. The acceptance rate here is below 4% and falling every year, so it is extremely competitive. I believe the school average for the SAT last year was about a 2080. I was discussing this topic with her once and this is what she said, as close as I can remember: "It's stupid to judge people based on race. There are dim-witted and intelligent people in every race and to say that one or another race does better at a particular test is just ignorant. It's actually degrading to me that I get a better shot at a college because I'm black rather than who I am."</p>
<p>She raises an extremely valid point. Who's to say that we're diverse based on the color of our skin? To give one race a better chance because the average SAT score for that ethnic group is lower than another's is ridiculous. Synonymous to saying, oh, blue eyed people do better on the SAT than brown-eyed, so let's accept brown-eyed people who have done worse than some blue-eyed ones, to keep with the national average of brown-eyed people in the nation.
See what I mean? The whole thing is a load of crap, if they really wanted diversity, they would NOT be judging diversity solely based on race. Who we are stems from where we grew up, who we grew up with, the books we read, the food we eat, the type of toilet paper we use and which version of the TI calculator we have. In other words, it's impossible to use the word 'diversity' solely based on skin color. </p>
<p>Why not just do away with the race question? Our essays should show who we REALLY are. I don't think you'd have mobs of Caucasians rioting if College X turned out to have 25% African Americans one year. Would anyone be claiming that it's racist? We'd know they deserved it.</p>
<p>I do not have any problems with any race. I've lived in NYC for nearly all my life - I doubt there's one race I haven't interacted with. And each one had their fair share of intellectuals and the intellectually challenged. Anyone that still has a problem with race is an ignorant dinosaur. I have a problem with judging people [having been judged all my life] based on where they come from. </p>
<p>I'm Polish, immigrated to the U.S. with my family nigh on 13 years ago. And yet, after spending more than 3/4 of my life here in the U.S., I cannot begin to count how many dumbasses have come to me asking if I was the one who made the submarine with screen doors. And after humiliating me, they ask me to help them with the math homework later that evening.</p>
<p>No, I'm sick and tired of racism. And that's exactly what AA is - racism. Against both minorities and majorities. Claiming diversity based on skin color is shallow. Yes, your race plays a part in who you are, but the part is minute. So many different things influence who we are; I still cannot believe that, after all this time, we cannot stop judging based on physical appearances.</p>
<p>Edit: Err, sorry for the essay. I've always tried to express myself as clearly as possible; Maybe too clearly, sometimes.</p>
<p>@bioblade</p>
<p>if job and school applications cease to ask for the applicant's ethnicity then they'll also need to stop asking for the applicant's name.</p>