Affirmative Action

<ul>
<li>Once again, AA promotes diversity which is largely non-existant at most colleges. If you don't appreciate or embrace diversity, don't apply to that school.</li>
</ul>

<p>This is the typical stupid attitude of "don't like it, don't go there." I fail to see how diversity is non-existant at most colleges. What do you expect? That the number of blacks and whites be equal? That is idiotic, given that whites are still a majority in this country. It should not be surprising that they be the majority and almost any college in the country. </p>

<p>Also, explain to me the benefits of purely racial diversity as opposed to social, economic, location diversity. Why is it that I can't learn anything from a poor white person who lives in an urban location? Why is it that I can't learn anything from that person who has lived on a farm all his life? AA is all too happy to promote "diversity" but it fails to promote every other diversity but racial. Wheres the diversity among types of diversity?</p>

<p>And what about blacks, fabrizio? You forgot to mention that group.
Texas and California are unique that they hold very high Asian and Hispanic populations in their state. You leave those states and settle in other states on the East Coast where the Harvards and Northwesterns are, the Asian and Hispanic populations are low while the African-American population is higher, yet they are still underrepresented.</p>

<p>Asians are represented highly in the UC system because there are a lot of them in California and they are the best students there.</p>

<p>Surely you realize the the UC like most large public university are usually simply a numbers driven approach to admissions where as smaller more selective schools use a holistic approach to admissions because there is more to a student than the numbers and look deeper than just the score on a 3 hour test. They do take into consideration that there are multiple intelligences that do not always translate to pen an paper fillin the bubbl e exams. These schools are building a class where they feel an athlete, a musician, an artist, someone who grew up on the farm and the poor inner city black kid all have something important to bring to the table.</p>

<p>So, tenisghs, your solution to "lack of representation" is to impose more lenient standards for blacks in order to achieve higher "diversity"? If I straw manned you, please forgive me. But, that's how I interpreted your last post.</p>

<p>If you do that, then you hurt the blacks who get in through merit. You lump them in with the students who got in because of less strict criteria. That does not help.</p>

<p>Sybbie, I agree with you. Performance on standardized tests (e.g. SAT, AB, IB) is but one factor in admissions. But, all you said just corrobated what I was saying.</p>

<p>Asians are represented in the UC system because there are a lot of them in California and they are the BEST students there. Best in multiple meanings, test scores, EC devotion, paid work, volunteer work, and so forth.</p>

<p>In fact, just to make sure I am not misunderstood, I agree with 90% of your last sentence. But, I'd like to add one more descriptive phrase to the last person on your list.</p>

<p>The poor inner city black kid who is:</p>

<p>a. Devoted to contributing positively to his city (volunteer work)
b. A good student (scores as good as anyone else)
c. Responsible (takes a paid job)</p>

<p>If you want these students to be more present in campuses, I'm all for it! But, don't just pick anyone. Pick the best of the best.</p>

<p>At some point, everyone is going to have to realize that: Life is unfair. People have challenges to overcome. It is incorrect to assume that race is the only challenge anyone ever faces. Gender is an issue, but kids get made fun of in elementary school for being short, skinny, or wearing glasses. And adults can be just as shallow. </p>

<p>We all had the opportunity to do stupid things that would lead drugs, jail, gangs, etc. It isn't just minorities. Every race (and economic class) has single parent families, tragedies, emotional problems, abuse, etc. It isn't just minorities. We all have to work at school to make good grades. It isn't just minorities. </p>

<p>I believe in equality of opportunity. That is how America works. Instead of focusing on college admissions, we should focus on fixing the situations that necessitated AA: earlier education, social programs. In "The Outsiders" by S. E. Hinton (a VERY good book) there is a quote I really like "It's bad all over." Just b/c you are white and your parents make $300,000 a year does not mean that life is made for you. Problems hinder our ability to perform in every community.</p>

<p>Fabrizo, you don't think middle-class black kids participate in their community? (i'm middle class but I happen to live in a predominately black inner-city neighborhood and participate in helping inner-city youth in educational after-school programs.) Your whole argument just went down the drain.</p>

<p>I know I said earlier that I would take a break from this thread..but I felt I have to say something. Tenisghs, I don't think thats what fabrizo is saying at all. All he is saying (i think) is that if you admit students for diversity, pick the best who truly will bring diversity to the campus, not just a black student simply for the sake of increasing higher black percentage in colleges. I dont even think thats what AA is like right now, but you seem to think that that is what has to be done. I applaud you for your achievements, and you probably were accepted to your college because you were very qualified. THey didn't accept you becuase you are black and black representation "NEEDS" to be higher. You have to stop thinking that blacks are the only group being neglected and prejudiced and that is the only reason why black representation in colleges is low.</p>

<p>I don't see how anyone can justify this at all.</p>

<p>If I were black or hispanic, I would be able to get into every Ivy with my current GPA, SATs, etc.</p>

<p>But, instead, I'm white. So now, I have barely any chance at most of the Ivies.</p>

<p>Not fair.</p>

<p>It is fair. </p>

<p>You won't promote diversity.</p>

<p>Colleges want diversity.</p>

<p>Sorry to say, but from what you say it doesn't appear that you're a match.</p>

<p>Don't you think that colleges, as institutions of higher learning, should want students who can handle the academic courseload of that university rather than "diversity"?</p>

<p>Icarus, colleges do both.</p>

<p>indeed - however, you can have a diverse student body without affirmative action.</p>

<p>Icarus- the idea is that an truly fine education would be incomplete without the diversity and different world views offered by other peoples.</p>

<p>Thus, we should prepare minorities through reforming our school system before college, so that colleges can have both minorites and people who can handle the course load.</p>

<p>hahaha I'm relatively certain I said that exact thing earlier in this thread. </p>

<p>The need for diversity does not make AA a good thing...</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is the typical stupid attitude of "don't like it, don't go there." I fail to see how diversity is non-existant at most colleges. What do you expect? That the number of blacks and whites be equal? That is idiotic, given that whites are still a majority in this country. It should not be surprising that they be the majority and almost any college in the country.

[/quote]

I don't expect a 50 / 50 split between Blacks and Whites. That is utterly unrealistic. I understand that whites are the majority in this country. I agree with affirmative action because it supports ** under-represented ** minorities. There is a disparity between the percentage of African-Americans in top-tier schools compared to the percentage of the American population that is African-American. According to <a href="http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf&lt;/a>, America is 12.3% black, 12.9% black w/ another race. MIT is 6% African American (freshman class)... do you see a disparity?</p>

<p>
[quote]

Also, explain to me the benefits of purely racial diversity as opposed to social, economic, location diversity. Why is it that I can't learn anything from a poor white person who lives in an urban location? Why is it that I can't learn anything from that person who has lived on a farm all his life? AA is all too happy to promote "diversity" but it fails to promote every other diversity but racial. Wheres the diversity among types of diversity?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Diversity is most notable in the racial sense. A 100% white class with 50% being economically disadvantaged would still be 100% white. It's not an either/or situation. It's not a case of poor white vs. rich black always.</p>

<p>If you see a brochure, and there are 3 white kids (2 male 1 female), 1 black (female), 1 hispanic (male), 1 asian (female), and a native american (male). You are going to think the place is diverse. If you see a brochure with four white guys a white girl, an asian guy, and an asian girl, you won't think the place is diverse. I guarantee it. Even if some are dressed in rags, and others in Armani, you won't think it is as diverse as the first brochure.</p>

<p>Admissions are need-blind anyways!</p>

<p>one should note that diversity comes in many forms(such as economic welfare), not merely race which affirmative action policies discriminate on.</p>

<p>Ronlivs, that is exactly what I was saying! :)</p>

<p>Tenis, I think you straw manned me. Personally, I don't even know why you brought that up.</p>

<p>To reiterate, my whole point is diversity IS a good thing. But, don't pick poorer (ie. academically and extracurricularly) students over better students just because of race.</p>