<p>
I think that’s exactly right. I’m the mom of daughters and a son, and I think bad judgment is a much bigger problem than predators.</p>
<p>I’ve become convinced, based on points made on CC, and on information from my kids, that predators are a very big problem. I think more emphasis should be put on stopping and/or punishing them, which (in my opinion) requires much more emphasis on bystander intervention.</p>
<p>I do think the bystander intervention is a useful safeguard. However, I would like to see even more emphasis on teaching females and males not to get in this type of drinking scenario in the first place. </p>
<p>My viewpoint is the individual’s responsibility to himself is the first, best and strongest line of defense, and I have reservations with the overwhelming majority of the solutions, which absolve individuals of their personal responsibility. </p>
<p>Adults, who condone and give permission for such activities with no restrictions, are not free of blame either. They are witnessing the fruits of their wide-ranging permissions. Sometimes, the wise thing is to say, “No,” and rigorously enforce that standard. </p>
<p>Here is an interesting complaint and judicial opinion
<a href=“https://kcjohnson.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/08/benning-complaint.pdf”>https://kcjohnson.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/08/benning-complaint.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“https://kcjohnson.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/08/benning-v-marlboro-d-vt.pdf”>https://kcjohnson.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/08/benning-v-marlboro-d-vt.pdf</a></p>
<p>And the school’s policy
<a href=“https://nook.marlboro.edu/public/governance/handbooks/sexual_harassment”>https://nook.marlboro.edu/public/governance/handbooks/sexual_harassment</a></p>
<p>Actually Zooser, here’s a case where the girl was abusing the boy, but the boy got expelled so yes any rules SHOULD be blind to gender and especially Title IX which was ironoically enacted to equalize genders. </p>
<p><a href=“Is UMass-Amherst Biased Against Male Students in Title IX Assault Cases?”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/18/is-umass-amherst-biased-against-male-students-in-title-ix-assault-cases.html</a></p>
<p>And I agree with you about college culture - but place the onus squarely on the raised drinking ages. My H mentioned last week that the thought that MADD missed the mark and should have focused simply on drunk driving instead of working to raise the drinking age raised which he thinks has contributed greatly to some of the issues young people have and confront. </p>
<p>California has passed more silly laws than this one so what will be will be. But it’s abit of the cat chasing it’s own tail.</p>
<p>Just as it is a positive development for young women to openly pursue justice, it is for these young men to do the same. </p>
<p>find it infinitely depressing that either is necessary. The degree to which some panels seem to dismiss clear evidence of consent is shocking. Is this the “preponderance of the evidence” standard at work? Is it a witch hunt mentality? Some combination of the two? </p>
<p>It stinks, and it also leaches credibility and attention away from what I believe to be the large problem of genuine, predatory sexual assault on campuses.</p>
<p>I think both men and women are suing colleges. The sad truth is most of these misguided cases will be settled out of court and we all know who bears the “expense” of large lawsuits - students and their parents. The whole thing stinks and I agree all this ridiculous pandering takes attention away from putting true sexual assaulters and rapists into the criminal justice system. The proposed California law does absolutely nothing to change anything in my opinion except to again muddy the waters with extraneous “stuff.” </p>
<p>
Hmm…I don’t know…maybe the definition of rape. :P</p>
<p>^^No, the Justice Department and many states do not define rape as male perpetuated.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys is right, of course. How would YOU define rape Niquil77?</p>
<p>To say this without taking a side, the argument I’ve heard before in the Johnny/Susie scenario is that (in all likelihood) Johnny was a more “active” participant than Susie. If they’re both falling down drunk there’s not any way that Susie could have somehow forced Johnny, where as the reverse is possible (though still unlikely even, depending on what we’re calling “falling down drunk” exactly). It harder for sex to happen with a reluctant male than a reluctant female. </p>
<p>I remember reading a tweet (googles it) that observed:
“If I understand college administrators correctly, colleges are hotbeds of racism and rape that everyone should be able to attend.”</p>
<p>
Never said anything about male or female, momofthreeboys and zoosermom. :)</p>
<p>Odd how you jumped to that, though. </p>
<p>scholarme, it’s funny how you brought up racism and rape. Both topics breed similar defenses. “Not all men…” and “Not all white people…” Lately I’ve been noticing the similarities. </p>
<p>Oh look! Excellent! We are worried about women raping men again on CC. </p>
<p>For a bunch of pretty educated folks, this subject brings out the most ridiculous, Enquirer worthy scenarios on the internet. </p>
<p>Welcome to CC, where we are more concerned with the possibility of men being raped by drunk women then we are about women being raped by men. </p>
<p>Perhaps we should start with an anatomy lesson. B-) </p>
<p>I think it was the sequence of the quote and then your comment…I did think it was a strange comment and not what I expected-sorry for jumping</p>
<p>Poetgrl, that post was truly appalling and sexist. Perhaps it is you who needs an anatomy lesson if you find the concept of men being raped to be ridiculous and worthy of a joe cool emoticon. Sexual assault is not funny and males who are drunk can just as easily be victimized by other men or women. If women should be protected from unconsented sexual contact, so should men.</p>
<p>Poet read the Peter Yu case log which is snaking it’s way through the courts if you don’t believe women can be the aggressors. I simply believe that in this day and age women AND men are equal opportunity aggressors and colleges simply aren’t equipped and are now hamstrung by our misguided legislative actions and incapable of due process. I know you’ll argue that for every wronged male student there is perhaps an equally wronged female student, or two, or three, but the bottom line is colleges and universities have zero business adjudicating this stuff. It does nothing to advance women’s right and in fact has the opposite and deleterious affect of treating them as a fragile class in need of protection, not to mention future students and parents are going to have the privilege of paying for these very expensive lawsuits and payoffs. And now there’s California…attempting to legalize something utterly silly. </p>
<p>NyQuil, no one accused you of saying anything, I asked you a question which you did not answer.</p>
<p>Vadenschlutte, affirmative consent is the standard of the proposed regulation and the thread. If Johnny and Susie are both equally drunk, then they are both equally able or unable to consent. There should be no double standard. If Susie can say after the fact that she couldn’t consent, then the same is true of men. And as we recall from other threads, rape isn’t limited to penile-vaginal penetration. As I said earlier, I have recently read some interesting statistics about how often men are victimized. Drunk and incapacitated isn’t funny. Predatory teachers aren’t funny. Prison rape isn’t funny. Hazing isn’t funny. The bodily self determination of men is as important as that of women.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I’ve spent the last month or two on here discussing the most ridiculous scenarios regarding rape. As someone who works with rape survivors, I find the whole thing tedious in the extreme and irrelevent to the very real and very serious issue of rape on college campuses.</p>
<p>You know I’m not sexist, or anti man. </p>
<p>In fact, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of rapes on college campus are perpetrated by a very small number of repeat offenders who are also predators, like all sex offenders.</p>
<p>And, I have posted on several threads about the absolute fact of young men being raped on campus, mainly, however, by other men. </p>
<p>I would have thought you weren’t anti man but now I’m not so sure. The topic is neither ridiculous nor worthy of Joe cool. The bottom line is that if the absence of affirmative consent constitutes rape, which I believe it does, then that applies to both genders. Are more rapists men? Sure. But not all. There are many examples of women being sexual abusers. And when it gets to the question of being too drunk to consent men matter too. I see no reason why women shouldn’t be told that if he is too drink to really know what he is doing, then she should stay away because he hasn’t consented and his affirmative consent is critical, too. My daughters should never be pressured, forced, coerced or otherwise abused, but neither should my son. </p>