I really, truly, sincerely hadn’t read those threads. They must have fallen into the gap after my daughters graduated while I could still pretend that my son was going to stay at home with me forever and such things as college and sex never needed to concern him. But now that he is a foot taller than I am and entering his junior year, I have to take my blinders off and need to start thinking about what he will face.</p>
<p>Hunt, I hope with my whole heart that I have spent the last 16 years teaching my son about his moral obligation to protect others, and in light of how he treats me now that he is so much bigger and how we treats my mother who is visually impaired and the people he meets, I think he has learned that particular lesson. Now we need to make sure he understands in the context of relationships with women that no means no and all about impairment and consent. God willing he has a good foundation of morals to work from. I think he does.</p>
<p>@zoosermom - I have sons, therefore, I also have discussions from the male POV.</p>
<p>As for the quote above, for males, it is more interesting than what you indicate. Last year, my DS was expressly told in the mandatory sexual guidelines meeting that even if a male actually had verbal consent, everyone voluntarily partakes etc. the female could change her mind days later and change the encounter to be rape. (I do not get it either, and I have stopped trying) Not sure how in the world that type of rule-making occurs, but it does cause major distrust between the sexes, as you state. Kind of hard not to since this position codifies that males should not trust what a female says. There is really no other way to read that policy.</p>
<p>Anyone with sons who is not discussing these scenarios and issues with them prior to college is insane. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, that is an extrapolation that no one has made or ever implied. </p>
<p>The key point is since we have sons and they too can be caught up in a bad situation that can wreck their lives, we do see understanding the issues fully from the male POV and talking to them no less important than others talking to their daughters.</p>
<p>And the pertinent word you use is victimization, which may not be only a physical issue. As per my example above, it is very possible for males to be victimized by impossible to understand or to follow guidelines and by overall bad public policy.</p>
This is probably not quite what the written policy actually says. They may have been pointing out, however, that if this scenario were to occur the male might find himself with some difficult proof problems. It’s like saying, perhaps, “Even if a friend voluntarily lends you his car, he could later claim that you took it without permission and have you arrested for theft.” He could, and you might be convicted, too, depending on the other surrounding facts.</p>
<p>Added: but let’s get practical. If you really want to protect your son from false accusations, what steps can he take? Well, he can avoid hooking up with women who have been drinking. But there are a few other things: don’t have sex with somebody you just met. Don’t have sex with somebody until you have spent time with that person and have built up some kind of relationship. The first time you become intimate with somebody, take it slow and be sure she (or he) is clearly willing to continue. Don’t have sex for the first time even with that person when you have both been drinking more than one or two drinks (better, none). Don’t assume that because you have had sex with a person, that you can now have sex with that person any time you want (or ever). Don’t have sex with a person and then never call or interact with that person again. Don’t have sex with a person and then brag about it to others. Never have sex with a person who has had sex with other people during the same encounter. Never have sex with somebody you don’t like, or who doesn’t like you.</p>
<p>Actually, this is pretty good advice for women as well, although for women, I would add more warnings about avoiding predators, as others have indicated above.</p>
<p>awcntnb, I’m trying to learn and I appreciate very much the benefit of your experience, so thank you for posting. I don’t even know how to address that with my son. I guess it comes back to sometimes people lie. The case for which I posted the legal papers is one I’m going to discuss with him and have him look at the policies and documents. The lack of due process amazes me. I will have to tell him that he has no right to counsel, evidence, basic fairness, if a girl decides to cry rape because he dates her friend after having sex with her. This in no way minimizes the importance of rape education for women. I see it as totally separate and also involving abusive behavior. My son is a very gentle soul and I often say that he is the most empathetic person I know and he always has been very sensitive to other people, but he can also be a little bit too trusting and not as willing or mature enough to step back and assess things carefully. We can help him overcome those things if we know what to discuss. We need to discuss drugs, alcohol, violence, as well as sexual safety for himself and his partners. But we also need him to understand completely that a college campus is a whole different legal environment from the rest of the world and the same rights don’t always apply.</p>
<p>Also, and more delicately, my son is a musician. He loathes marching band music, but who knows what might happen in college. I am aware of hazing and sexual abuse incidents with regard to marching bands in some rare circumstances, so yes that is on my radar for him, as well. Not because it is more important than what happens to women or because it happens more regularly, but because it is something that might possibly impact my son as either a victim or a bystander.Even things that are rare or unusual matter to me when they might cross paths with the Boy Who Lights My Life.</p>
<p>Possibly. But, as we have seen in this issue, what a policy says and how it is interpreted is anyone’s guess. Thus, the worst case scenario is just as operative as the best case.</p>
<p>However, you make the point. The male has difficult proof problems, so it has zero bearing on what happened actually between them, i.e., do not trust what the female says or does at the given time. The only thing that matters is what the female says after, whether accurate or not, e.g., your car example.</p>
<p>This is something very important to let my sons in on and make sure they understand, and no less important than my neighbor talking to her daughter. </p>
Those are all very good warnings. And the end of all of them could easily be “if you don’t use these kinds of sensible behaviors, you could end up with your life ruined even if you really didn’t do anything wrong.”</p>
<p>The case of the kid I posted about earlier involved an actual relationship, so that doesn’t always protect a person, but just like I told my girls that no good could come of getting drunk to the point of impairment, so will I tell my son.</p>
That’s exactly the point. Colleges are able to interpret without the benefit of transparency, which is where the trouble comes from and what the point of this thread was in the first place.</p>
<p>I do think it is important to have some balance here, though. While it’s a good idea to tell a young man how to avoid false accusations, you should also tell him that it’s about a hundred times more likely that he will encounter situations in which other young men are behaving as sexual predators, and to think about what he will do in those situations.</p>
<p>Hunt, that is very important, too, but this thread is about the affirmative consent regulations, so that’s what we are discussing here. I don’t think this is meant as a comprehensive “what I plan to tell my son before he goes to college” thread. Although I wonder if I started such a thread, how much nastiness directed at boys would come up. </p>
<p>By page 5 or so, I no longer worry too much about the original topic–there’s usually a lot of stuff to discuss. And this is kind of part of a broader discussion that’s been going on here for a long time (as in, ever since I’ve been on this site).</p>
<p>@Hunt - My sons are teetotalers and avoid drunk women and women who are drinking, so it does eliminate a lot of issues for them. </p>
<p>However, it still important for him to understand what is going on around him and what the issues are if it ever comes up with a sober female. Nothing stopping a sober female from changing her mind too for whatever reasons.</p>
<p>Anyway, any preemptive actions this still does not change the fact that for males it is a general distrustful situation when what a female says to them is considered basically irrelevant at the time. It just really strikes me as a regressive, devoid of responsibility policy since does not hold someone accountable for what s/he says and does at a given time. </p>
<p>In college, it is important that my sons fully comprehend that what a female says and does between them in the privacy of a room is not worth much of anything unless it is videotaped with sound.</p>
I think it’s important to note that these situations are rare. While it makes sense to be aware of this risk, it is much, much lower than many other risks that a college student is likely to experience at college (and much less than the risk that a woman will be the target of sexual misconduct, which is why I think many people react negatively when it is mentioned). It’s probably more important–I would say much more important–to make sure that your kids understand the academic dishonesty procedures, and the risks involved with even inadvertent violations of those–they are more likely to occur than a false accusation of rape.</p>
<p>In my house, I just brought up the issues when another situation, e.g., something in the news, on TV etc., was addressing a similar issue. I would then explain how the college environment is now set up. This approach did not make it seem like a lot of info at one time and made things easier to absorb. I took every opportunity given to me, and the world did not disappoint with highly useable examples to use. I started in earnest beginning senior year and think I got everything covered well enough.</p>
I have a huge problem with this mindset. If people have a problem with the topic of this thread, which falls within the TOS and has been respectful, then simply don’t open it. I’m a little tired of every time someone expresses a concern for their son it gets mocked or dismissed in this thread. I want to make sure my son knows how to protect himself from being assaulted and from being railroaded. That matters to me. Not every young man is a predator or a boor or a punk or a pig. Some are nice boys and some get victimized, too, by men and by women. And if people “react negatively” to a loving parent wanting to protect all of their children, even the lesser sex, then that reflects much more on the reactor than on the loving parent. And there are also some boys who don’t fit the manly man stereotype of dragging a woman away by the hair and raping her, and those boys are as likely or more likely to be victimized than women.</p>
<p>I didn’t put any words in anybody’s mouth. Just 'sayin. I quoted you accurately, and I responded to your posts and poetgrls posts accurately. I just disagreed with them and found them offensive.</p>
This is an example of what I consider dismissive and I still think it is.</p>
<p>Here is what I haven’t been saying explicitly: boys who are gay, questioning or less stereotypically male are often victimized and parents of sons who fall into those categories should be worried and should definitely be proactive.</p>
<p>Boys who are not adept at reading social cues can take actions that are misconstrued or can do the wrong thing and get into a world of trouble, even inadvertently. Their parents should be worried and definitely should be proactive.</p>
<p>Every boy in a new situation with new people can make a mistake and should be aware of potential consequences. That’s what we are saying. It’s not a my problem is bigger than yours or his sexual assault is worse than hers. We are trying to help our boys navigate new experiences with rules that may not be what they expect. Academic honesty is very important, but the rules are very clearly spelled out and for my particular kid, have been drilled into his head. The due process issue is a new one on me, so certainly it is unfamiliar to him.</p>