Affording a prestigious school? How much debt is normal

Paying for College
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm an accepted student at Case Western Reserve University for the class of 2016. I received a $17,500 per year scholarship and a $5,800 grant. I'm assuming my grant will stay roughly the same all 4 years.</p>

<p>The problem is my EFC is much more than my father can afford. If I go to Case, I will have to take out the maximum federal direct loans ($31,000) and also another $70,000 in PLUS loans which I will pay for after college. I'm pretty sure I'm going to do electrical engineering with computer science minor, or maybe CS major with some other minor.</p>

<p>I know Case has an outstanding reputation and therefore good salary potential. It is definitely a great fit for me. It was my top choice. But the loans... I'll likely have to do extended repayment on both direct and PLUS loans, and overall, I'll end up paying back $220,000 to the federal government for $100,000 in loans, with monthly payments of like $750...</p>

<p>Is this normal? Do people ever undergo such financial brutality to go to a really prestigious, great school? And if so, is it ever a good idea? If you're tired of reading, feel free to post a response now.</p>

<hr>

<p>Further information:</p>

<p>I never realized until recently that loan interest is compounded continuously. I thought that if you take out a $100,000 loan w/ 8% interest, you pay back $108,000. I know, I'm a young, naive moron.</p>

<p>I know the average national student debt is like $25,000, and the average PLUS is like $25,000. But for every average, there are cases far above and below the average.</p>

<p>My safety school is Miami University (in Oxford, Ohio). It's a public school of 17,000 students and it's affordable. But it's also a party school where I would not fit in at all, believe me. I worry about this reputation, and it would be high school all over again: 4 years of being one of very few kids who don't binge on alcohol.</p>

2

<p>You can’t afford Case…at all. That is waaaaaayyyyyy toooooo much debt. Ridiculous…even $50k is too much.</p>

<p>You shouldn’t borrow more than about $30k total for all 4 years. </p>

<p>There are non-party kids at MiamiU…and guess what? There are kids that party at Case.</p>

3

<p>I forgot to mention: The debt numbers I listed are for all four years. Ie. at the end of my four years of college, that is how much debt I will have.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids: I know there will be partiers and non-partiers wherever you go, but the ratios are vastly different at Miami and Case. Just believe me… when I visited Miami, I saw a ridiculous number of frat houses littered with plastic beer cups, and it was Friday morning for God’s sake… plus, read Miami student reviews around the internet. The students themselves will tell you it’s a party school.</p>

<p>Thanks for the input.</p>

4

<p>What is your major going to be?</p>

<p>how much will you be earning when you graduate?</p>

<p>There’s a mom who posts here that had a D graduate from Miami last year. The D is now in med school at Case. There are serious students at Miami.</p>

5

<p>Are your parents willing to take out the PLUS loans? Do they understand that they will be on the hook to repay them if you can’t? If not, it’s a non-starter anyway.</p>

<p>$100,000 is way, way too much for undergrad. That’s almost twice as much as I’m borrowing for undergrad and graduate school combined.</p>

6

<p>Case is not exactly a Harvard peer when it comes to prestige. Jo way it’s worth those loans.</p>

<p>Stay away from the parties if you like, but Miami is your better bet.</p>

7

<p>If you didnt apply to a safety school that you would attend, you don’t have a safety.</p>

<p>My brother earned his electrical engineering degree at u of Colorado- Colorado springs.
His income is the same as other engineers from more expensive schools.</p>

8

<p>Your safety school isn’t much of a safety if it’s not a fit and you don’t want to go there. Do you have any other options? $100,000 of undergrad debt is way too much - I would not advise one of my kids to borrow that much (or even half that much) for Case.</p>

9

<p>Is there a reason why your father can’t help out more with the cost? Is there anything that has changed from last year that perhaps you could speak with FA at Case about and see if they might be able to help out with more aid? What do your parents say?</p>

<p>I would NOT recommend that much debt and if you need Parent loans, you may not be able to go regardless. You need to speak with Case about more aid or fall in love with your safety. Sorry, which I could offer better news.</p>

10

<p>What schools report as averages in their common data sets and whatever other info you have for loans are all what are reported and what can be verified. You have no idea what people are borrowing. Student debt that is reported is what the school itself, the federal and state governments have for STUDENT debt. The truth of the matter, as you probably well know, is that an 18-22 year old student cannot borrow on his own name, for the most part. The loans that YOU are taking will be reported only as the federal loans that are in your name only. The PLUS which your parents are taking, and that you are privately taking responsibility for, are a whole other story. I 've yet to see what the numbers are for parents at given universities taking out PLUS even. </p>

<p>Then you have the private loans that usually want BOTH the student and parent on the hook. So if ANYTHING happens to one party, the other is on the line for loans. The parent might as well get his own loan rather than going this route, because the loan is still going on his credit history and he is still going to have to pay if anything at all happens to the student so he can’t. Unless the deal is so much better on such loans, it is better to go PLUS where at least you have a built in insurance policy in the terms.</p>

<p>I am not against the availability of these loans. If your parents are comfortable and able to repay the PLUS, that’s one thing. But you realize, despite any private agreement (or formal) if you can’t pay for the loans, your parents are on the line for them. If something happens to you, they are on the line for them.</p>

<p>Parent loans are available through PLUS so that parents who can afford to do so and want to pay for their colleges, but do not have the savings and the current income to make those payments can use “future income” to pay. It is supposed to be a three legged school. There is a reason why the student loans are limited to the Stafford maximums.<br>
promis
That,all said, Miami of Ohio is an excellent school. I lived in the mdwest for a while and that school enjoys a great reputation. Honestly, I don’t think Case is worth the additional money. That is MHO.</p>

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<p>“The problem is my EFC is much more than my father can afford.”. Indeed. Such is the condition of humankind…</p>

<p>On a serious note, I agree with the wise posters here who argue that it isn’t worth going into too much debt. My younger child is also choosing a state flagship school over Case Western (at my urging). Even with the scholarship (read discount), it is still more expensive than the well regarded school in our state, and the salary prospects are similar.</p>

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<p>From another thread it looks like you intend to go into engineering. Miami is ABET accredited in their programs. There is no need to pay the extra to go to Case.</p>

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<p>Like I said in the original post, I’m thinking electrical engineering and/or computer science right now. I think the typical salary for a new graduate is around $45,000 (or $55,000 if you graduated from Case! God I wish I could afford Case…)</p>

<p>My dad is willing to take out a PLUS loan. He’s my only surviving parent. He has good income, but between mortgage, saving up to retire, my sister in college etc. etc. he just can’t pay much out of pocket. I have no college savings fund either.</p>

<p>I like Miami U, don’t get me wrong. I applied to it as my safety without even visiting it first, because it has great graduation rates and other indications of quality, and has all the essentials. Only when I visited it earlier this month did I realize the drawbacks. I like the school. I don’t much care for the overall attitude among students though (they say Miami is a “work hard, play harder” school. Ugh…) and at the end of the day, it’s a fairly large school and doesn’t offer as much as others, especially in engineering. But that’s why it’s a safety. It’s not ideal, but I knew I could get accepted and it seemed better than other schools that would have served as safeties. I’d prefer Case, that’s all.</p>

<p>My other option is Ohio Northern University. It’s a private school and wouldn’t be as financially comfortable as Miami, even though they gave me a great scholarship. It may have better engineering than Miami, but I’m not sure. ONU is such a little-known school that it’s hard to gauge how good it is. But I like it.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the quick replies.</p>

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<p>If your dad can afford the loans and is ok about taking them, that 's fine. It’s a family decision. </p>

<p>Personally, I like Miami of Ohio, and truly think that it’s the better option in your case.</p>

<p>I know it seems like you have a great income and paying off those loans sounds easy looking a prospective engineering starting salaries, but you are still young and just starting college. The best laid plans can go astray. Engineering has a very high rate in terms of change of major. I would say the majority of those who start out that way change their major; some by pure choice, some because the curriculum is just more than they can successfully handle. It is a killer major. When preparing for the future, one tries to look at what could happen if things go wrong, because when all goes right and according to plan, it 's all a go,…but life does not work that way. </p>

<p>Also when you are in a given company of people or a peer group, nothing makes you feel poorer than being in the lower sector. It hurts when you are with people earning a given amount and a huge chunk of your income is going towards school loans. Hurts like a son of a gun. Which is all right, except with these loans, we are not talking a short term hurt but one of a long duration. </p>

<p>You have some good options, and it appears as though your dad is able to handle the loan. Good luck in making your choice.</p>

15

<p>One thing to consider is that Miami has a large honors program - with its own residence halls. If you’re eligible to be admitted to the program, I’d imagine that would significantly enhance your experience at Miami. It doesn’t really matter if the majority of the student body are beer-drinking jerks, so long as the kids in your social circle are smart and hardworking. I’d guess that the students in the engineering program are going to be pretty serious students also.</p>

<p>As for comparing Miami with Ohio Northern, you can go to the [American</a> Society for Engineering Education](<a href=“http://profiles.asee.org/]American”>http://profiles.asee.org/) to get an overview of the engineering programs at the two schools. Ohio Northern does not have a graduate program; Miami does. Miami also seems to have a much larger program . . . but if Ohio Northern has the classes you need, then that doesn’t really matter.</p>

<p>It’s worth noting that Miami also has a 3-2 option that would allow you to receive both a Miami Bachelor of Science degree and a degree in engineering from another university by spending 3 years at Miami and 2 years at the cooperating university. Participating partner schools are: Case Western, Columbia, and Washington University (St. Louis). According to the Miami website: “After completing three years at Miami with at least a 3.0 grade point average, you are guaranteed admission at one of these universities.” So you’d still get to go to Case if you wanted to!</p>

<p>Obviously, financial aid would still be an issue, but would probably not need to be revisited until you change schools in year #4, by which time your family’s circumstances might have changed sufficiently for you to qualify for additional need-based aid. Regardless, two years at Case would cost you a lot less than four! (You would be considered an undergraduate for purposes of financial aid during the entire 5-year program.)</p>

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<p>* I think the typical salary for a new graduate is around $45,000 (or $55,000 if you graduated from Case! God I wish I could afford Case…)*</p>

<p>Case is a techie school, so of course it’s avg salary is higher. That doesn’t mean beans. If you got the SAME techie kind of degree at Miami, you’d get hired at the SAME amount. </p>

<p>If you’re smart enough to be an engineer, then you’re smart enough to see the huge hole in your argument.</p>

17

<p>I was talking about the average salary for people who work in the field of computer science or electrical engineering in general, and then I jokingly said people with a degree from Case probably earn more, because I like Case a lot. I wasn’t arguing with anyone.</p>

<p>Dodgersmom, unfortunately you have to apply for the Miami honors program at the time that you apply for admission, which I didn’t do. So I missed my chance. But I agree that I would just have to find my niche at Miami.</p>

<p>I was actually considering the 3+2 program before. I was going to do it through Otterbein University. But Case doesn’t offer much in scholarships to 3+2 students or transfer students in general. My two year at Case alone would cost $80,000 including my $5,800 grant and a $5,000 per year scholarship they give to 3+2 students. So unfortunately, it would actually be cheaper for me to just go to Case for 4 years than to do the 3+2 program through Miami U.</p>

<p>Thank you for the suggestions and the link.</p>

18

<p>and then I jokingly said people with a degree from Case probably earn more, because I like Case a lot.</p>

<p>Wishful thinking doesn’t net a higher salary. You don’t get paid more for graduating from Case. And, even that hopeful salary in NOT enough to afford that much debt. Sorry.</p>

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<p>Case is crap.</p>

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<p>Not sure why a grown man (Jeffth) would be so negative and unhelpful to a teenage trying to make a serious decision! </p>

<p>Anyway, according to Payscale the average salary for case graduate is $52,600. </p>

<p>I want to mention that 3/2 Engineering programs are not the best to focus on because you may need to meet a minimum gpa to transfer to the new school. As OP mentioned, it would be more costly because of 5 years of schooling instead of 4. You will still need to figure out FA costs in your new school once you transfer. </p>

<p>I do not think I would want to recommend the high debt load, but most of the debt is actually going to be your fathers. I am not sure that I have seen what your final debt would be at your safety. So you might be better off going to a CC for the first two years and transferring later on to reduce your debt.</p>