Affording Once Accepted

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

Alright, this might be a little forthcoming, but I am curious how a lot of theatre/MT majors can afford some of the schools they are looking at attending. I see where some students audition to all the top programs and are accepted to some of them. Now comes the decision, which one to choose. From the research I have conducted, after any academic or talent scholarships there is still a bill of over $30,000 or more per year.

I understand that some parents/students are loaded and cost is not an issue. But how do the average income families afford these schools. I’m not saying all do but the parents and students on this board are not reporting about smaller liberal arts schools or in-state schools with low tuition.

Can someone help me out with this. Are there scholarships out there that I am not seeing. As an example, UNCSA would still cost over $32,000 per year with the little grant their calculator gives me. This is not including any talent scholarship but I am not privy as to this amount, if any…

Please help a father out. My D is very understanding at the cost and knows coming out of school with a large load/debt would be a mistake.

2

You can read some of the ideas on the Financial Aid and Scholarships forum, but there is no magic pill to make the costs go away. Some schools do award talent scholarships, but usually not enough to pay tuition or the other costs. You have to decide if you can afford the school.

My daughter got a small talent award, a small merit award, an outside scholarship from her grandfather’s fraternity. The only way it worked was that she picked a very low cost school to begin with.

3

Most people fill out the FAFSA in order to try and get grants/loans etc. (even though of us who won’t qualify for much if any aid- best to fill it out anyway and see!) Then merit scholarships, talent scholarships, and any outside local scholarships that the student might qualify for. And parents help/pay what they can. The “financial conversation” part of the college audition process is a very important one to have with the student. I have noticed that there are people who audition for schools that they could never feasibly afford, and have not been able to attend even if offered a coveted spot. I personally don’t believe in auditioning for a school that one knows will be out of their ability to pay for, but that is just me. Some people still want to see if they can get in and if they will get enough aid. Some are willing to come out with huge amounts of debt. It’s hard and heartbreaking to watch when someone gets that spot they dreamed for, but realizes they can’t pay for it.
For our family, our students (yes we have 2 in college at once!) attend schools that are not super cheap, (unfortunately!) but they do have sizable scholarships due to grades/talent. They will have a small amount of debt from government loans, and we are footing the rest. One of our kids has 2 on campus jobs as well. We are also doing what my parents did for me- instead of getting an higher interest parent plus loan, we took out a home equity line of credit at a way better rate and use that for school bills.

4

Hi @StewNChelle
I’m having this conversation often. My S is straight acting, a junior in high school, and we are in list building mode. While he’s looking at a good school fit, I’ve read a few books on college & finances. I took a first pass at list creation, 35 schools, and he’s to narrow it down. I color coded the schools on “Funding”. I used the concept that his GPA is in the top 25% of the school so he may get merit financial aide. I used the tuition information from the net price calculator, subtracted the estimated family contribution to determine a “gap”, factored in his loans, and the (small!) amount we’ve saved in a college plan. Now, there’s a whole lot of unknown in this first pass, for example state schools offer less than private colleges, but its a place to start. When he narrows down his list, I’ll look at how many of the schools are “green” color coded for our financial situation. I suspect that many of the very good theater schools have so many applicants that they do not necessarily need to offer merit or talent $. I’m sure they’ll be much heart breaking when we can’t afford a great school if he’s been accepted, but you never really know what a school is going to offer in finances so you just need to go for a few dream schools. I do know this - we are older parents, and we do not want to risk our small retirement savings, or take out big parent plus loans. We are very up front about this. So I look at “safety” schools as financial safety, and then there’s “acceptance” safety. BTW, S was exposed to this concept when he tried out for expensive arts boarding school. They accepted him, and even with generous aid, we still did not let him go (we needed to save the money for college) He was crushed, and then moved on. I told him it was practice for college. Of course, I’d love to hear what the more experienced parents have to say.

5

It is very, very difficult and the answer is different depending on whether you qualify for need-based aid or not. We were paying around $28K the first year, and closer to $22K in subsequent years (mostly because the boy moved off campus and saved a ton on rent and food that way – we actually ended up spending some of that on summer housing so he could do theater in Chicago). That’s with pretty good scholarship from CCPA (for them), but nowhere near our mid-teens EFC. We started saving before the S was born, only had one kid and continued to put away money throughout the four years he was enrolled, and still, I count myself very, very lucky to have gotten through this with only modest loans. The good thing is that he is totally used to eating home-cooked rice and beans and riding his bike everywhere for transit and buying clothes at thrift shops by now, and that’ll help later on in the struggling actor phase. There is nothing easy about this.

6

I have been wondering the exact same thing when I have been reading some of the posts. I don’t even know how people have paid for all the audition travel etc. We were very upfront with our D when she started her search and told her what we could afford to help her with and that we didn’t want her coming out of college with huge debt (especially going into “starving artist” mode.

7

I don’t know how all schools work but grades and test scores helped us out tremendously. A $60,000 a year price tag was brought down to $20,000 and we will have about $20,000 in loans at the end of her 4 years. Don’t discount the pricey private schools. They tend to give good merit aid.

8

I’m a single mom with 5 kids. Without financial aid grants/scholarships, colleges would be prohibitively expensive. One thing is that what one person thinks as ‘regular middle class,’ is what another person thinks of as ‘rich.’ But, as others have pointed out, if you run numbers through the Net Price Calculator in each school, you will get some idea of whether your kid will get need based financial aid. Also if you complete the FAFSA it will tell you your EFC, estimated family contribution. Although that is only a very rough rule of thumb, and anyway, most private schools (with the large endowments to give significant grants) have you also do the Profile, which is much more detailed.

There were some schools that we were pretty sure would be out of our range. In a few cases, my kids didn’t apply at all, and in other cases, they applied anyway–I’ve always told them they have two hurdles: getting in, and affording it. If you can get your total cost, tuition, room & board, ‘down’ to $20k/year as @bisouu’s D did, that is very good. The remainder will usually be covered by either need, or need-talent based, or else pure merit/talent based; you have a higher chance of getting pure merit if your school is ‘below’ your stats.

What I"m saying is that it’s a very good idea to apply to a wide range of schools–public, private (those with high endowments & a policy of low or no loans are the best), schools that are ‘below’ your stats and might give merit but which can be a great experience. Be very clear that your son/daughter may not be able to go. Sometimes it can be disappointing: My S was accepted to RADA but they weren’t set up for loans & didn’t have grants. My D was accepted to RISD (a top art school) but couldn’t go because they didn’t end up giving her any money in grants, & it was pure loans. (They both ended up in great places.)

It all has a way of working out, but be sure you are clear with your kid beforehand so it doesn’t come as a shock if they can’t go. On the flip side, I wouldn’t not apply to a college because you just don’t know if they won’t give you a merit/grant. Even in schools that are ‘known’ to not give large merit/talent/need grants, I have known people to get significant merit grants. But I’d be very sure to have financial safeties.

As far as affording even ‘just’ $20K/year or whatever it may be–I have taken out Parent Plus. I don’t own a home. My kids have taken out their own Stafford loans as well. This is the reality of the college experience nowadays. The Stafford loans now offer income-based repayment, which makes them a more do-able loan.

@CMB625, we couldn’t afford a ton of traveling, and certainly couldn’t visit a huge range of colleges beforehand. We’re lucky to live on the East Coast though, so we could drive to Unifieds and other NYC based auditions. You’re not alone!

@DoinResearch “I suspect that many of the very good theater schools have so many applicants that they do not necessarily need to offer merit or talent $.”–This isn’t necessarily true. The programs want the best fit for their schools and nearly all will have at least some official merit/talent, or unofficial (not listed on the website, but the money is there). But it’s very smart what you’re doing, I think. The process isn’t always predictable, and it’s good to keep options open with a wide range of choices.

9

From my own experience, and reading CC- talent money doesn’t seem to be that substantial at many schools, merit is much more substantial. And that is often determined by people outside theater department.

10

UNCSA does have small awards to offer and say they can increase in amount in subsequent years. They are small scholarships though - be prepared, it isn’t the big numbers that come from private school offers. They also meet need, but being a state school they start less expensive so there wasn’t much over EFC for my D in terms of need. (Where at private schools she had some “need” because the cost was so high to start with). The financial aid dept at UNCSA will work with you as much as possible (work study if child qualifies, subsidized loans if able, etc). Living off campus can be cheaper there for at least the final two years (many kids move off sophomore year- have to get an exemption to do so, but many seem to do it).

Outside scholarships -even tiny ones- can add up as well. Explore your community for opportunities.

We are trying our best to hold off on parent loans but may need to take some out. My D is taking her student loans as they are the best deal and offer flexibility in payback. Some are subsidized so that helps and we pay interest on what isn’t subsidized now to help reduce future costs. Our family decided we would help her pay student loans back if needed and able to help (meaning we realize she may be a starving artist that needs some help) but every family has to do what is right for them. And our D hopes to be able to pay her small loans off by herself.

We are hardly loaded with cash, but are making it work. Picking up extra work to get extra pay and saving more. Wouldn’t have thought it possible but somehow it is working.

We did plan ahead and had some modest college savings but not enough to cover it all. We are just trying to stretch it as far as possible before taking loans (parent) greater than the student loans. However, we will do so if needed. Want to keep any loans on the smaller side, but they are helpful in many cases to bridge the gap.

11

I forgot to add one thing @StewNChelle. From your number of 32k for UNCSA it appears you are looking at overall coast of attendance. While this is smart to do (don’t ignore fees or books,etc) there are various pieces of that cost that you may not have to pay. For example if your child is on your health insurance that is a nice savings right there. They also build in several thousand dollars for “miscellaneous” expenses. Those will be different for different kids. Maybe your student doesn’t fly home as often or saves money on those extra expenses another way.

You can also save money by having a double room in the dorms instead of a single or an apartment on campus

Right now OOS tuition and room and board come in below the amount you quoted above. And your overall cost of attendance (with all the extra fees,etc) may not be as high as you think.

12

@bfahopeful brings up a great point. Just to add to that: the college’s estimate of total cost of attendance is calculated by each individual college. It’s for financial aid purposes (the federal loans will only go up to the total cost of attendance, not more). but the estimates are somewhat arbitrary. They can vary even in the same town–for instance colleges in NYC have very different estimates of costs.

You can estimate costs yourself–look up the tuition/additional fees, look up their charges for room and board, look up local rentals (since most students move out later), and factor in any cost your own kid may have. Don’t forget costs like incidentals (eg toiletries), and of course required clothing and shoes, as well as entertainment, like going out occasionally, and any transportation. Also some schools require seeing shows or whatever, but don’t cover it, so be sure these costs are also factored in. Definitely if your own health insurance will cover your kid’s that saves money. On the opposite end, if you live in California and your kid is going to NYC, your travel costs will be higher than average.

Also to be honest, some kids are just better at being frugal than others. Many will eat out or buy take out, or - to be honest - purchase alcohol etc, without a clear understanding of the cost. An honest conversation beforehand will help, as well as a clear budget plan. It can be hard for kids on a budget because they are with kids who are not on a budget.

13

@bfahopeful, I agree. When I run the Net Price Calculator, I always mentally subtract the amount for “miscellaneous expenses” from the total. My logic is that I’m ALREADY paying for “miscellaneous expenses” for her right now - food, transportation, “Mom, can I have $20 to go to the movies?”, etc. So I don’t see her “miscelleneous expenses” being much more just because she’s at school. I’m much more concerned with what they call “direct cost” - the tuition, housing and meal plan that I have to pay directly to the school itself.

14

I love this thread because it speaks to so many of the concerns of all the parents that I know! My husband was told to expect approximately $10,000 a year more than what room and board has listed. Not sure if that is accurate or not. Our older D was on a full athletic scholarship and also got State money so ended up getting $ back every semester which was amazing and such a blessing for us! This time around will be totally different.

15

Like @actorparent and @connections said the miscellaneous expenses vary greatly. Due to that, I also looked at all the schools direct costs (tuition and room and board) and subtracted out any money they gave my D and then compared direct costs as a starting point. It helped me understand the bottom line at each school and compare. But I also understood that we would have other expenses and high travel costs where she ended up. She won’t be home every break -it was a trade off.

@CMB625 we are not paying 10k more than room and board. My D covers all her day to day expenses from a summer job. We may give her some cash here or there or send a care package but that is it. We do pay her travel costs and bought all the clothing and shoes and books required for her program. TBH books are not a huge expense for her as she doesn’t have as many academic classes and rents books for classes she doesn’t want to keep the books forever for.

16

We also found it safe to ignore the 8K or so in miscellaneous costs that CCPA estimated, since it’s wildly exaggerated and my S covers books and other incidentals out of work study.

17

The one positive of a schools’ total COA and those miscellaneous expenses is that financial aid uses that number to compare to your EFC. In our case there was a tiny bit of need for my D as our EFC came out below total COA but is higher than the direct costs alone.

18

Just as a word of warning–the college’s estimate is not always an overestimate. It can also be an underestimate. One of my kids has experienced that. His rent was less than $400/month and he never went out to eat or out for entertainment, but even with that, he still had to take out additional loans on top of Stafford to cover basic expenses. In my S’s case, it turned out that transportation was a major expense; he had to rent a Zipcar or hire an Uber for every trip to the grocery store or to every doctor’s appointment or every internship at the hospital, as none of these things were within walking distance. He had a bike too and used this but that is not always possible in cold or ice or snow or late at night. Be aware of this; transportation can be a large cost depending on the school. This is not always obvious at first.

When looking at costs, I would project farther ahead than the first year of being in a dorm. Dorm life is usually not something a Junior or Senior experiences; and in many schools they move out Sophomore year. For apartment living, the student will have higher expenses in some areas. It’s not just $20 for the movies; it’s stuff you need for an apartment. Often apartment living can be cheaper overall but sometimes it can be more expensive depending on the kid and how they budget. And transportation costs may come into play in many schools once they move into an apartment.

Also it’s not always possible to know in advance whether your kid will need to be home more frequently. My S needed to come home more frequently for medical reasons.

For my D at Northwestern, expenses were less than estimated, although not by much. First, moving out ended up being far cheaper than the room/board plan at the school. The rent was very reasonable considering how close it was to campus, and she was within walking distance to several grocery stores, pharmacies, doctors, and her job. She is also quite frugal and cooks her own nutritious food. She didn’t go out much, and if she drank (she turned 21 as a Sophomore), she avoided going to bars but instead bought a bottle of wine to share with friends. She also was able to fly home nonstop on Southwest often for less than $200 round trip; she did not come home for Thanksgiving.

One piece of advice I was given by finaid office was to use the work study money for incidentals. Incidentals (to use one minor example, taking the train into the city to see a mandated show) can be more than you estimate.

19

We told our kids that their allowance for college, so to speak, was the cost of a residential SUNY. Anything else was on them. I made it clear that I would not take a parent loan or do a HELOC for any school other than an Ivy, which my kids were not candidates for since none of them felt that working hard in HS for the best grade was a worthwhile goal.

My D was accepted to a private college and offered a scholarship. After deducting the scholarship and the SUNY equivalent, there was an $8K difference for the first year. She couldn’t/wouldn’t manage it and went to a SUNY, from which she graduated with honors, with no debt and with a masters’ because I could afford to pay for the 5th year after she became an RA.

We are now going through the process with S17, our youngest. He is accepted to one private school with a combined merit/talent award that still leaves about $14K uncovered after the SUNY equivalent is deducted. It would be cheaper if he commuted but he is majoring in theater and they rehearse late so I want him living on campus. He is accepted to another school where the difference is about 6 - 8K at this point, but we haven’t received the talent award yet. He also has acceptances to 2 SUNY’s, one with a $2K scholarship and the possibility of more if he is accepted into the Honors Program. Although it’s not a given, he will apply to be an RA in his second year at whichever school he attends. D was one of 30 RA’s chosen from 130+ applicants and S17 is similar to her in personality and outlook. H was an RA back in his day as well.

20

Good advice @connections