<p>" (P.S. DD’12 has been offered a “free iPad” by state flagship) She is waiting to hear from the non-iPad schools in April ."</p>
<p>Wish there was a “like” button! :)</p>
<p>Agentyninetynine, I’m also from Oregon and I think that unless you live here, it’s hard for others to understand that U of O is not the right fit for a lot of Oregon kids. With only 2 well-regarded public universities (U of O and Oregon State), my D feels like going to either of these schools would be continuing with the same kids she’s known forever and she wants a clean slate. U of O has not ever ranked very high in the ratings; although this year they finally gave up automatic admission with a pretty low GPA. It’s got a great football team but you never hear about how great it is academically. Why is that? It’s not to say that there aren’t some serious students attending, but unlike Washington to the North and California to the South, we don’t have heavy-hitter flagships like UC Berkeley or University of Washington. The State of Oregon continues to defund and destabilize the K12 and university situation. I would look at paying for UC Berkeley the way I would look at paying for a private…there’s just a lot more seriousness going on.</p>
<p>Whats wrong with Portland state or Southern Oregon?
Both my kids looked at several schools in Oregon, my oldest still lives there!</p>
<p>“my D feels like going to either of these schools would be continuing with the same kids she’s known forever and she wants a clean slate.”</p>
<p>I hope you set her straight concerning this statement. I can guarantee she doesn’t/wouldn’t know even 1% of the nearly 25,000 students at either U.</p>
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<p>Minnesota and Wisconsin are relatively cheap for in-state students. So there is less incentive for the students to avoid taking an extra semester.</p>
<p>In California, UCs’ four year graduation rates are much higher now (e.g. around 70% at Berkeley) than they were years ago (around 40% at Berkeley), probably due to both higher selectivity and significantly higher costs of attendance. It was easier to get classes years ago, but many students voluntarily took reduced course loads because they did not want to work as hard and could easily afford the extra semester(s) (including by being able to “work their way through college”).</p>
<p>You say you want your D in a great school so she can get into a great graduate program. In most fields, GPA is more important than the school you attended (within reason.) </p>
<p>UIUC (U of Illinois) has a Center for Theoretical Astrophysics and a UG degree. They are good about giving instate tuition to talented students. They are in Champaign-Urbana, about 2 hrs by bus from Chicago. Far from you, but at least closer than the East Coast!</p>
<p>Agentninetynine - You really need to do the FAFSA (at least) to figure out where you stand need-wise. Folks on this thread are giving you good advice, but it’s mostly from their own perspective. Some of it’s going to apply to you, and some of it won’t. How will you know which is which?</p>
<p>For example, giterdone is talking about costs coming in within a few thousand dollars at every school. That makes sense; the schools are probably producing similar FA packages all around. Does that apply to you? Maybe.</p>
<p>But what if you turn out to be a full-pay family with a high-stats kid? Then you’re more likely to find that your choices range from something like $0 (if you’re lucky!) all the way up to $250,000 COA for four years. In that case, you’ll want to have lots of well-researched choices. </p>
<p>You need to run those numbers to determine the basic financial parameters for your search. Until you do that, you don’t know whether you’re after financial aid, merit aid, or an array of choices.</p>
<p>Agentyninetynine==I understand what you are saying. Our kids do not want to go to schools where they know too many people. We toured one school that is a really good fit for our S. There are about 14,000 students on campus there and during our one day tour we ran into about 50 kids from their high school that attend school there. There were 4 other families visiting that same day from our high school. It was nice to see the kids but it is a negative in many ways. Given the programs our S would be involved in, he would see these kids from his high school often since that program is a major draw to that school from our high school.</p>
<p>Quote: Originally Posted by giterdone
I think the 4 year benchmark IS a primary (cost) consideration. There is no way that more than 50% of students attending the U of Minn (or UW) lack foresight? or are indecisive about their majors. Good institutions build environments around moving kids through (i.e. NU and U of Mich in the Big 10) in 4 years.</p>
<p>Posted by UCB:
Minnesota and Wisconsin are relatively cheap for in-state students. So there is less incentive for the students to avoid taking an extra semester.</p>
<p>In California, UCs’ four year graduation rates are much higher now (e.g. around 70% at Berkeley) than they were years ago (around 40% at Berkeley), probably due to both higher selectivity and significantly higher costs of attendance. It was easier to get classes years ago, but many students voluntarily took reduced course loads because they did not want to work as hard and could easily afford the extra semester(s) (including by being able to “work their way through college”).</p>
<p>========</p>
<p>I agree with UCB. And, because of cost, many schools have invested in online systems to track and assist students to “Graduate in Four”. With costs rising and these tracking systems (like DegreeWorks), I think a number of schools’ grad rates will increase.</p>
<p>That said, there will always be kids that need to take an extra semester or two because of changing majors or dropping courses…and then being short credits or then being “out of sequence” for when classes are offered. I don’t believe the reason is really because the students couldn’t get the needed classes.</p>
<p>I don’t think the vast disparity between on-time graduation rates of “like” schools (Big 10 Universities in this case) is something that can be glossed over or explained away by childish behavior. The logical answer is; some schools are better at ensuring kids progress, which is “insurance” for on-time completion and a factor in overall cost analysis.</p>
<p>We all know stories of the kids who moved through in 3 years, or graduated with double majors in 4. However, when 55% of kids ARE NOT graduating on-time from specific universities? (UW-Madison, UM-Twin Cities) that signals a structural problem outside of the kids control.</p>
<p>UNC CH has a written policy that students are expected to graduate in 8 semesters. Taking longer than that requires permission from a dean. Permission is granted for things like trying to complete a double major, or needing a class or tow to finish a major. Once a kid hits 60 credits they are required to declare a major.</p>
<p>giterdone–I think one thing that skews the numbers at U of MN and U of WI and similar is that they are in major cities, they have a lot of “part-time” students, people in the work force going back to start a BA/BS or complete a degree and have limited time to take classes. It does come down to course availability though for a lot of kids, through no fault of their own. I hear that from many kids I know that have gone there.</p>
<p>The inputs into these graduation stats are supposed to be; full time, incoming freshman.</p>
<p>And Madison or the Twin Cities really aren’t any different than Ann Arbor, and certainly not any different than Evanston (although I know NU is private). But 4 years is 4 years and kids is kids!</p>
<p>giterdone-I think that there is difference in the business culture between the TC and the rest of those towns. Keep in mind that 12 credits is “full-time” in the eyes of a college but part-time for many students. You are comparing Ann Arbor and it’s 113,000 to a metro of over 3 million people. It’s not even a close comparison.</p>
<p>Also, were are comparing apples to apples, correct. You are comparing the kids that start right out of high school and how long it takes them to graduate, correct?</p>
<p>@SteveMA, to your last question - yes. And before I get challenged; you can “google” 4 year graduation rates, and also search for that stat on any college admissions website.</p>
<p>And I’ve been to Ann Arbor. It’s barely 30 minutes outside Detroit and 20 minutes from Wayne Cty Airport. That is, by most definitions, a Detroit “suburb”</p>
<p>OK, but here’s the crux of the issue–would a statistically lower 4-year graduation rate keep a motivated kid from attending, or more importantly keep parents from paying for it? Let’s compare 3 similarly selective state flagships: UM-Ann Arbor at 70%, UIUC at 64%, and UW-Madison at 55% (that’s the new figure from University stats on incoming freshmen in 2007).</p>
<p>While it’s possible that UM-Ann Arbor may have a leg up on holding core courses or entry-level major courses open for frosh/sophs, I cannot imagine a 15% spread in 4-year graduation rates being the deciding factor for an individual’s enrollment at one of these institutions. Secondary, maybe, about as important as the cleanliness of the dorms on campus.</p>
<p>And if we’re talking OOS tuition, at $25K UW-Madison is far cheaper than either UIUC or UM-Ann Arbor & merit money for OOS appears to be about the same–tough to get & getting tougher by the year.</p>
<p>Few UW Madison students attribute any delay to not getting needed classes. They do come from a lower economic class overall than UM or Uva so more work part-time, etc. Also two major schools are essentially over 4+ year programs–engineering and education due to expected/recommended co-ops and internships. UW has not had a policy of pushing people through. Instead they encourage double-majors and often other time expanding paths. It’s more up to the student.</p>
<p>I could be wrong, but I though OP was talking about U of W as in Huskies not Badgers :-)</p>
<p>It wandered to both and more.</p>
<p>I believe a motivated, well financed student will graduate in 4 years, unless classes are unavailable, which can happen at the larger Pac 10 & Big 10 schools. A friend’s son graduated from UCLA with 4 degrees in 4 years.</p>