<p>Well, I don’t think graduation rate should necessarily be a primary factor in the decision-making process from a cost standpoint–too many variances. Maybe secondary, though. But it certainly wouldn’t make me shy away from UMinn in the least.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that at most any college–and I’m including the ones with sub 50% 4-year graduation rates–unless there is a change in major with no course overlap–if a student has a good plan, looks ahead 2-3 semesters at all times, and doesn’t have to drop/retake more than a couple classes along the way, that kid should be able to graduate in 8 semesters, period. </p>
<p>It’s the majority that take classes without a purpose or that don’t declare a major until junior year that skew the statistical base. I KNOW it happens, though, a lot.</p>
<p>Class availability is the most often raised issue at U of Minn. The inability to enroll in pre-reqs because classes fill up, which causes the student to either delay those, or fill up on courses that don’t move them through their majors.</p>
<p>I think the 4 year benchmark IS a primary (cost) consideration. There is no way that more than 50% of students attending the U of Minn (or UW) lack foresight? or are indecisive about their majors. Good institutions build environments around moving kids through (i.e. NU and U of Mich in the Big 10) in 4 years.</p>
<p>It would be very easy for me to morph this post into a “degree cred” or “price/value of perception” discussion. However, trying to keep true to the OP’s original thought; “Affording OOS tuition?” There is no easy, structural, financial machination that can answer that question that excludes the obvious… rationalization! ;)</p>
<p>Grad rates don’t tell you that your child might need a fifth year at all.</p>
<p>Grad rates at publics are more likely linked to funding (kids run out of money before senior year) or they change their major (which happens everywhere) or the students are going part-time and paying their own way thru.</p>
<p>Your child, who would be family funded, should have LITTLE fear about graduating in 4 years…unless she changes her major…which could happen at the OOS school…and then you’d be on the hook for the full $50k for the fifth year at the pricey school.</p>
<p>“I think the 4 year benchmark IS a primary (cost) consideration. There is no way that more than 50% of students attending the U of Minn (or UW) lack foresight? or are indecisive about their majors.”</p>
<p>Uh…yes…probably. Half of kids change majors and many lack foresight when selecting courses. Kids usually CAUSE the problems that require extra years of schooling…they drop classes, change majors, and/or won’t take classes at early or late times.</p>
<p>I disagree. I know plenty of motivated, prepared and family funded students who couldn’t navigate through U of Minn in 4 years. Just didn’t happen.</p>
<p>There is little to support your broad generalization regarding “kids at public’s” when UW’s 4 year grad rate hovers 30 points lower than U of Mich’s. Or UVA’s 4 year grad rate being almost double that of the schools mentioned here.</p>
<p>Thumper: I don’t want to split hairs but accept or settle, it’s the same outcome. </p>
<p>At this point our daughter has the interest, the drive, the grades and pre SAT/ACT STATS to go to a top physics/mathematics university. Our state flagship is a wonderful school, with a decent physics and mathematics department. But compared to Harvey Mudd, Caltech, Occidental and MIT - it is settling. It’s settling for larger class sizes, settling for a different academic experience. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s the reality of the situation. And we’ve in no way talked down U of O as it’s H’s alma mater.</p>
<p>The other issue with the school is it’s location. U of O is in the middle of the Willamette Valley which has the highest grass pollen count in the country. D is highly allergic to grass. </p>
<p>On another note: Good friend’s son is looking at UW. They are telling incoming freshman to consider that it may take 5 years to receive a bachelors because often pre-req’s are not available.</p>
<p>Our experience aligns with what Giterdone is saying. With two kids, one graduated (in 4 years) and one a college sophomore…so two college application cycles with a mix of private and publics, some FAFSA only and some Profile, including out of state publics…we found that at the colleges/unis where the kids were accepted our out of pocket costs when looking at the finaid letters were pretty darn similar + or - several thousand dollars. I found that extremely interesting.</p>
<p>Momof3: to clarify - you didn’t notice a huge difference in cost between public and private in terms of out of pocket?</p>
<p>I have a question that may seem silly but I’m wondering if localized scholarships say from Rotary or 4-H or Applebee’s is only good for universities in the U.S. Has anyone had a child apply to a Canadian college? D is also considering University of British Columbia in Vancouver.</p>
<p>“On another note: Good friend’s son is looking at UW. They are telling incoming freshman to consider that it may take 5 years to receive a bachelors because often pre-req’s are not available.”</p>
<hr>
<p>I will have to check with UW-Madison to see if in fact the administration is making that somewhat-irresponsible statement, or if it’s just coming from a student worker on a walking tour. Yes, at lot of publics, pre-requisites sometimes will close out for late-enrolling freshmen here & there, but not EVERY pre-req. There has to be advance planning to make it work, and there are so many options to fill core requirements that there is most always a Plan B or C. FYI…my D is a junior & will graduate with two B.S. degrees (not a double major) in 4 years and one summer. And she never took more than 16 hours in a semester, so don’t believe everything you hear.</p>
<p>jnm123 that is possible at my son’s public state school too… 4 years, one summer for 2 degrees, forensic chem and molecular biology… no problem getting pre-reqs in sequence. average class size is 31 students (he has had one bigger, most about that or smaller) …</p>
<p>I think @Agentninetlynine’s “UW” is Washington, based on her response. While I am referring to UW-Madison.</p>
<p>But to generalize that public vs. private grade stats vary widely due to “all” kids changing their mind and majors, or running out of money? doesn’t explain why UW-Madison graduates fewer than 44% on time, UMinn < 50%, while NU is 86% and UMich over 70%! The demographic of these schools have to be more similar than different. Which means its the culture and mindset (especially at NU, UMich and UVA) to move kids through on time. And certainly makes grad rates germane to the overall “cost of education” issue. If it were always just up to the kids? then all Major University grad stats would be more similar than different.</p>
<p>I have to agree with the others, at larger, state flagships, getting into required classes can be very difficult. I don’t think it is reasonable to compare the graduation rates from a small LAC to that of a large flagship if you plan on attending a flagship. You need to compare schools of similar size to gauge if it is more or less difficult to graduate from one school or the next. I do think that if finances are an issue, I would compare the cost of 5 years at a flagship to 4 years at a private school and see how those costs compare. All it takes is changing your major once and you are most likely looking at a 5th year at a flagship, on average.</p>
<p>At some schools we have visited they have made mention that certain programs are almost a guaranteed 5th year and to be aware of that during the selection process.</p>
<p>From kids we know at UW-Madison, the 5th year seems to be what they are hearing/experiencing as well. If they don’t go 5 years, they take summer classes, which amounts to about the same over the years.</p>
<p>Smaller state schools don’t seem to have the same issues.</p>
<p>As for merit aid-you will get your best merit aid if you come in with high stats so “settling” for a state university might be the most affordable. If your child has high stats and applies to high stat schools, they look average. If they apply to schools where they come in at the top 25%, that is where the big merit aid happens.</p>
<p>Yep, the UW I was referring to is Washington and the major is engineering. Saw the UW and forgot she was talking about UWisconsin.</p>
<p>SteveMA: Finances will play a huge role in D’s choice of school. If she goes to U of O, then so be it. We’ll be pleased with the price and she’ll get a fine education. And she may receive a nice scholarship package because it doesn’t have the draw for women in math and physics. As we’ve told her, she can pursue a higher tier education during grad school. Still, due to her severe allergies and asthma, she will need to find a safety school that she can attend year round.</p>
<p>There are some good old threads about merit scholarships - anyone have the link from momfromtexas - or something like that?</p>
<p>PSAT - as others have mentioned, she will take fall of her junior year. There are still lots of schools that give very generous merit schoalrships for NMF. Find that list and see if any of those schools would be in consideration for strong science programs. Those threads are on this board as well. </p>
<p>ACT/SAT - take both, your D may find she likes one better than the other. Regardless, either will do, and if she scores higher on one - take it again, maybe three times. Strive for the highest single sitting and super score she can get. Again, some schools will offer merit money for strong test scores, or perfect scores. She will need a comparable SAT score to confirm a strong PSAT NMF score.</p>
<p>Research - “Common Data set” “name of school” 2010 - this will give you a look at the entering freshman class and the kinds of stats those kids have. You can quickly see if your daughter has the stats to qualify for merit money.</p>
<p>Research - what schools even often merit. The Ivies do not - only financial aid. Stanford - does not. Notre Dame did not - but now has a new competitive merit scholarship.</p>
<p>There are a lot of good schools that offer some great scholarships - but they are competitive. And, your D looks like she would be competitive based on what you said with some very strong test scores. I would think 34 or 35 ACT or 2300+ in the SAT would put her in the ballpark for some of these. </p>
<p>These boards can be very helpful - make sure you are looking in all the other threads (tests, SAT, ACT) etc … and the threads for each school as well. You can also search through old threads at the bottom - to the left of the thread - change the parameter of how old of threads you want to look through.</p>
<p>HOpe that helps. I also have a soph …but have a soph in college. This board was invaluable in our search.</p>
<p>Since finances WILL play a huge role, my advice would be to look at the finances before you make any visits. It just isn’t fair to your D (nor is it an efficient use of your limited time and $ to visit schools) to visit schools she won’t be able to attend due to finances.</p>
<p>Run your EFC at the FAFSA website (haven’t seen any info from you on this yet). Determine (1) what you believe you can pay over her four years from savings and income, (2) how much you are willing to have her take out in loans (not more than she is likely to make in her first year out of college is a good rule). If she stays in science, at least she will probably not have to pay for grad school.</p>
<p>Once you have this info in hand, if you believe you will need merit aid to close the gap, go to the website for the college and look at the financial aid section. It should give information on what merit based scholarships are available. Generally your D will need statistics in the top 25% for the school to even be considered for merit aid. Being from far away (geographically diverse) can increase her odds of merit aid, but remember that it costs more to travel to & from school.</p>
<p>Then decide where to visit. It is important to visit before making a final decision, because the vibe on campus can be really different from what you thought on paper.</p>
<p>FYI, a book like Fiske’s Guide to Colleges is also a great way to build a list of schools that she might be interested in.</p>
<p>Excellent advice intparent … , to elaborate, on the school’s website, search for “merit scholarship”. </p>
<p>I would also say that we visited a lot of schools throughout my S’s high school - when on vacation we would swing by a campus. The purpose of a lot of our visits was to get a feel for what type of school he would want. Big, little, big in small town, little in big town, urban, etc. </p>
<p>He also applied to several schools that we never visited. He ended up attending one of those schools - after being awarded a nice scholarship. He did visit on the interview weekend - but that was it. But my S was very open to where he would attend - and did not have specific needs in certain departments, like science.</p>
<p>One more thing - If you are in Oregon - aren’t they part of that Mountain pact? There is some kind of pact with schools in certain regions, where you can get in-state tuition at out-of-state schools. I did not research this much … but someone here may know, or your counseling office. </p>
<p>Certain test scores will also qualify you for In state tuition - versus out of state - it’s called a scholarship - but basically you can go for the in state cost. I believe OSU and Texas A & M both do some of this. But you would need to verify that.</p>
<p>Thanks MaterMia: We definitely are looking at the WUE schools too.</p>
<p>I haven’t calculated our EFC but I suspect it will be high. I’m glad we’re starting this process now so she has time to consider a range of schools. At this point, she’s given me some parameters and I’ve done the bulk of the research. I think I’ll put pertinent info on a spread sheet and go from there.</p>
is only good for universities in the U.S. Has anyone had a child apply to a Canadian college? D is also considering University of British Columbia in Vancouver.</p>