African American?

Applying to College
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<p>
[quote]
wait, so Northstarmom are you saying that they'll be able to tell the race just by what school one went to and how they scored on the SAT? That seems kind of bias and unjust

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So Authentic,</p>

<p>In september, I would suggest that you see your GC and look at your permanent record. In your permanent record especially if you have been in NYC through K-12, or came as an "over the counter" student, there will be a sheet in the folder filled out by your parents where they indicate your race. </p>

<p>In addition, NSM is correct that in order to get national achievement or national hispanic, you will have to indicate your race when taking the SAT/PSAT .</p>

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<p>sybbue719, I was kind of thinking in terms of disregarding race on the SAT thing. but whatever ok.......</p>

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<p>They would not rescind admissions as there would be too many arguments against them. I mean the question on the app is "which race do you identify with" and if your parents were born in Africa and then you were born in Africa and then moved to America I would say that without a clear definition ON THE APP ITSELF it would be perfectly reasonable for the this person to consider thmeselves as African American (especially considering the fact that they were...idk, born in Africa!). And the argument about them seeing how you have identified yourself in the past, a person can change "who they identify with" throughout there life....for example, a person who is half black and half white could identify as white through some of their life and then decide they want to identify as black, and in fact it is more reasonable for somebody who was born in Africa and whose parents were born in Africa to consider themselves African American when, surprise, THEY WERE BORN IN AFRICA, the people who think this is not correct what would you say they should be called? "African, But White!, American"?</p>

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<p>abank., i agree with you. they did not say "What race are you"
They clearly say "Which race you do identify yourself with". Theres a big difference in those two question. One is a fact and the other is your belief.</p>

<p>I think African as in where you were born and American as in your ethnicity
but identifying African/American is kind of ambiguous to me.</p>

<p>Its either or.</p>

45

<p>abank, the statement on the app is generally something to the effect of "what ethnicity do you identify most with" and the answers are African American/Black.</p>

<p>Ethnicity has less to do with race, but more to do with cultural connections (through language, customs, skin color, ancestry etc.). So, if you are a white person born in Africa, but you have no ancestral African connections (i.e. your ancestors are European), then you are not ethnically African, you are an ethnically European person living in Africa. If the app wanted to know what country/continent you identify most with, then they would ask for nationality. And in this case, a white person born in Africa but currently living in America would be completely justified in writing that are "African American"</p>

<p>However, abank, if you refuse to accept that logic, let's consider the way in which the ethnicity options are worded. It says "African American/Black." In this country, according to the US Census definitions, a person who is black or African American is "a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa." So, if you are a white born in South Africa, you don't have origins within the black racial groups of Africa, therefore your are not African American/Black.</p>

<p>
[quote]
for example, a person who is half black and half white could identify as white through some of their life and then decide they want to identify as black, and in fact it is more reasonable for somebody who was born in Africa and whose parents were born in Africa to consider themselves African American when, surprise, THEY WERE BORN IN AFRICA, the people who think this is not correct what would you say they should be called? "African, But White!, American"?

[/quote]
And just as a general aside, African Americans is most commonly used to refer to black people whose ancestors were slaves, not black people who immigrated from Africa.</p>

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<p>exactly So Authentic, I mean obviously they mean "Black...so we can show you off in our viewbooks and have people realize how benevolent and kind we are to these poor black children!" but they realize how horrible and racist and patronizing that is so they are afraid to put it for the exact reasons why I outlined in my first post in this thread.</p>

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<p>and So Authentic,</p>

<p>You are incorrect. American is a nationality, not an ethnicity.</p>

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<p>HotPiece101: Of course they mean black, as in look black, but any loophole in the system should be abused in order to put an end to this ridiculous and racist practice that only re-entrenches white superiority complex. They do not have the US Census definition on the app and do not ask you to look it up, therefor it is ridiculous for them to think that some kid who was born in Africa with parents who were born in Africa might not be a bit confused and possibly put down African American because he is African...and now living in America. The whole African American/Black thing, this symbol, "/", means OR, so it is African American or Black. Sure they don't <em>mean</em> "or", but if they are too afraid to put down their real intentions then they should be taken advantage of at all opportunities.</p>

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<p>abank,</p>

<p>As I said before, African American refers to people with slave ancestry. Black refers to people who have black skin (i.e. Caribbeans, African immigrants), but do not have American slave ancestry. So, this white person from Africa would not be African American.</p>

<p>But, the original point of your post was that colleges couldn't kick a person out because they misrepresented their race. However, colleges could. Because you effectively lied on your application. </p>

<p>From the time you enter elementary school in this country until you apply to college, race is a standard part of any school forms. You put your race on standardized tests, it's on your permanent record, and sometimes your transcript. If this white African has put Caucasian on every thing from elementary school up until they get to college applications, when they decide that they are African American, then that person has lied on their app. However, if this person has contested to be African American their entire lives in this country and then they put it on their app, then whatever.</p>

<p>So, colleges can kick you out for misrepresenting your ETHNICITY (because that's what they ask for).</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, getting rescinded for "misrepresenting" race simply doesn't happen. First -- at public schools race can be a factor in admissions but it is illegal for it to be the determining factor. If they accept you for putting "African American" but reject you for looking too white they would be hit with a huge lawsuit.</p>

<p>If you geniunely identify with the "African American" community even if you are white & from South Africa you are NOT misrepresenting yourself. From anecdotal evidence, I know several kids who were only around 25% URM chose to "identify" with that community and never had any problems with it. These forums should be about truth and not making false assertions --- if anyone has evidence of a case where a student was rescinded because of how they identified their race feel free to share.</p>

51

<p>
[quote]
Northstarmom, getting rescinded for "misrepresenting" race simply doesn't happen. First -- at public schools race can be a factor in admissions but it is illegal for it to be the determining factor. If they accept you for putting "African American" but reject you for looking too white they would be hit with a huge lawsuit.

[/quote]
They wouldn't be kicked out because they looked too white. They could be kicked out for lying on their application. If this is the first time in their life that they have ever been black (they just did it to get into college), then colleges have very right to kick them out because it is indicative of their character.</p>

<p>
[quote]
These forums should be about truth and not making false assertions --- if anyone has evidence of a case where a student was rescinded because of how they identified race feel free to share.

[/quote]
I think sybbie already posted somewhere that she knew a girl who put that she was hispanic on her application. The girl got in and got a huge scholarship because she was hispanic. The school wanted to feature her on a panel and write a bio about her life and then the truth came out, she wasn't hispanic. She was kicked out of school and she was sued by the school for the scholarship money she had recieved.</p>

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<p>hotpiece101: I AGREE with your definitions, all I am saying is that they are not outlined on the application. It does not say "African American: People with Slave Ancestry" or "African American: Look it Up in the US Census", sure they mean "People with Slave Ancestry", but without that being defined I would say that it is reasonable enough for a kid who was born in Africa and is now living in America to possibly not be well versed in US Census definitions and think that "Hey, I am African American". Atleast it is reasonable enough for an application to not be rescinded, and your point about not identifying yourself as African American your whole life would not matter at the point in which it says "which do you identify with", b/c, again, it is very plausible for somebody to change who they identify with throughout their life especially in a unique situation like this. I mean, what if this was a white South African who grew up in a black neighborhood in South Africa (I know, not likely). Basically my point behind ALL of these posts (as I try to add at the end of them all) is that the very fact that we are debating this points to just how ridiculous this whole thing is and why Affirmative Action should be based on economic status, parental education, kid's school ect that way white South Africans (who most likely are rich with educated parents and attending good schools) would not even be in a situation in which they could possibly gain an advantage over a kid who truly needs it like they are right now. The reason I promote people taking advantage of apparent loopholes like this is so that eventually the practice of giving advantage based on the color of one's skin will eventually be exposed as racist and unfair practice that it is. White South African should NOT be in a situation in which they could get an advantage, but guess what, with a bit of stretching they are with the way things are today, and until we can get colleges to be honest and write on the application "Black, like your skin is black, no whities, white people don't look good in viewbooks" situations like this should be taken advantage of.</p>

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<p>abank, i completely understand what you are saying. My point is that if a person has not identified themselves as African American from the time they stepped foot in this country (and this can be proven through school records, standardized tests), then colleges have every right to kick them out. The original argument in your first post was that colleges don't have this right. But they do, misrepresenting yourself on your application is indicative of your character and the colleges could kick you out. Would they? Who knows, but they can if they want to. If you are a white African who misinterpreted the choices or you are a white person that suddenly decided that you are down for the cause and are now ethnically black, then maybe colleges would take that into consideration. But either way, a school could see a white person that has put "Caucasian" on all their school forms and then is suddenly "Black/African American" on their college apps and interpret that as you lying.</p>

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<p>hotpiece, yeah you're right. American is a nationality. so are you hype? Wanna throw a party?</p>

<p>"They wouldn't be kicked out because they looked too white. They could be kicked out for lying on their application. If this is the first time in their life that they have ever been black (they just did it to get into college), then colleges have very right to kick them out because it is indicative of their character."</p>

<p>^^^Dead Wrong! you know why?
simply because like abank said, they asked what race do you see yourself as, if one thinks they are black, even though they are white. too bad for their blind A**. But their still entitled to their own opinion && kicking them out for that is unjust. If a college is going to kick them out because of race then that means they will be making judgement on who to accept based on race. Plus, you won't be necessarily lying because the question asked is bent more of an opinion. Opinions are neither right or wrong</p>

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<p>HotPiece: Okay I agree with your point that it could be interpreted as lying, but back to my original point, its too vague for them to actually go through the whole process of kicking somebody out, b/c is that "somebody" turned out to be very vocal and outspoken then they could have a lawsuit on their hands...</p>

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<p>ok honestly, on the european in south africa----</p>

<p>If the white person who lived in south africa is african american, then by that standard all non-international students are the same race: American. </p>

<p>So if everybody is not AMERICAN, than the race/ethnicity refers to your ancestry.</p>

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<p>"then by that standard all non-international students are the same race: American. So if everybody is not AMERICAN, than the race/ethnicity refers to your ancestry."</p>

<p>-Your well-reasoned logic won't work for the denizens of CC.... :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>American is not a race (thanks to the helpful clarity of hottie)</p>

<p>kk this is not the haven for sarcasm.</p>

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<p>Europeans first set foot in South Africa in 1488.....does anybody have a time frame for when "nationality" turns to "ethnicity". I mean technically we all started in Africa, so we are ALL African Americans according to our ancestors! It is ridiculous, yet technically true, arguments like this that would not lead to your application being rescinded if they found out that you were too white for their liking</p>

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<p>how about we leave this up to Charles Darwin && Pangea?</p>