Kiki: In high school or middle school the parents are present when the kids that are cut are announced? For every sport? That is not how most high schools work as the parents are kept far away from the process. Did you see that happen or is that what someone told you?
Many CCers accept that the top students should be the ones in the honors or AP classes, but object to the best students making the high school athletic teams. Yes, at larger schools most kids on a high school (or even a middle school) team are those that play at a high level outside of school. They are not necessarily molded by the travel team, but they are trained at a higher level than the kids that plays on a recreational team. Some kids that play even on a high level travel team won’t make the HS team or get any playing time if they do. The high school has 4 grades of kids to pick from. Such kids are typically more invested in that sport then the kid who is looking for something to do on a Saturday and spend
In our schools, a kid also won’t make a orchestra or band beyond freshman year if they don’t take private music lessons. Even many (most) of the kids in the top vocal groups or who get the lead in the school musical take voice lessons. It may seem harsh, but just like an honors class, the level of competition on the field or on the stage is geared to the best athletes at the school. There are more options for kids to do sports if they don’t want to be competitive (cross country and track take all who show up), then for some other ECs.
True, about the high school cuts, in our experience. The coaching staff meets with every player, talks through strengths and weaknesses, and tells them what to do if they want to improve and come back the next year. There is no splitting into groups of “made the team” vs. not. When the practice is over, kids walk to their family’s car, same as any other day. You only know who was cut based on who doesn’t come to the next practice.
Even club, middle school aged baseball, which had fairly ruthless cuts, was gentle letting the kids down, meeting with the kids far away from parents, then dismissing everyone at the same time so that it was not obvious who was not on the team. A walk of shame sounds particularly thoughtless, surely a word to the coach about doing it another way would get some results.
Different schools have different cultures and practices. We know seniors at other schools who were cut from Varsity teams where they had been regular contributors, because a new coach was going a different direction with the program. We know schools where, to participate in music program, one must be taking private lessons long before one gets to high school and, once in the school music program, cannot participate in a sport or other major EC because of the time commitment. Those are some of the reasons we chose our high school, because it allows kids to “graze” more and doesn’t require exclusive commitment early on.
This is how it is in my son’s private school, which is why we sought private education for him. In the public schools here, students can not be told to spend money or do anything outside of school, so even the most talented students are held back. At my son’s school, everyone is welcome to play in an ensemble appropriate for their level, but in order to be in the top ensembles, one must own their instrument, take private lessons, and submit to twice-yearly private playing exams to show competency and improvement. There is absolutely no handholding and no sugarcoating at the top level. You either have the chops or you play in a lower ensemble. However, the kids who play their way up to the top are celebrated like nobody’s business, and I can’t imagine the pride they feel in what is a very tough accomplishment because the top kids in this school are some of the top young musicians in the NYC area.
One of my very best friend’s son was a very accomplished team athlete. In our area, the local newspaper treats those teams like the Yankees, in depth reporting, daily box scores, the whole bit. This kid was often in the newspaper, and in his senior year, the season preview report on his school discussed the coach’s concerns and challenges in filling that kid’s spot because he wouldn’t be playing that year. No injury was mentioned, and this was huge news. The reason was that the kid had academically failed off the team, but it was a nightmare for him and his parents because it was soooooo public.
And I will add, one of our kids, who only expressed interest in playing baseball in 3rd grade, was considered “too old” to start playing baseball in our local little league scene. It had never occurred to us that an 8 year old was too old to start a new sport, but apparently, that was true. One team did take him out of sympathy, and he had a lot of fun playing for a while.
yes…it is true about the “tunnel” for lacrosse, soccer, and field hockey. Football, basketball, and baseball teams seem to be more like recruiting for college…your stats must have so many years on specific kinds of teams, certain sizes, etc. regardless of any who want to be on the team. Don’t even get me started on the water sports. They are in a class all to themselves. And yes, the stories are confirmed by people I know and trust who were there with their kids. It seems to be normal for people who grew up here. But for someone who came from a private school where there were no cuts b/c they wanted the academic kids to experience a broader base…it is shocking. I really just wanted to bring attention to the “article” where I felt that academically minded kids cannot seem to be proud or excited for doing well in school. The school even has the mindset of you will make people feel dumb…and that is not PC. Never mind the overwhelming jocks in the school that dominate social acceptance…touting it in the faces of those who can’t or don’t want to play. I don’t know. Maybe it all evens out in the end. But like a paper my son wrote about PE requirements in middle school. They had foreign language for only half the year interchanging with computers if you wanted for that half. P.E was mandatory for all 4 all 4 years. I know we need to be healthy…but, I wonder if we made everyone take honors english or advanced math…it just doesn’t fit everyone. So, I don’t know how I got so far into sports on here, but know that I am happy for all who can get the right fit for their kids in the next phase of all of this. I just want this next generation (this extremely PC generation) to remember that smart kids who only do academics…are happy. And they have a place in this world that isn’t 1 dimensional. Have you ever seen an academic bowl or science olympiad? great teamwork.
" Never mind the overwhelming jocks in the school that dominate social acceptance…touting it in the faces of those who can’t or don’t want to play. I don’t know. Maybe it all evens out in the end. "
Other people only have the social power that you give them. I think this is a real introvert / extrovert difference. The extroverts seem to have to have social approval by others and be involved and knowledgeable about what every one else is doing. We introverts just don’t care enormous go about other people’s opinions. If I think that guy over there is a dumb jock, what do I care if he becomes homecoming king? I don’t care about the opinions of people I don’t respect. Extroverts seem to care about people’s opinions even if they don’t respect the person, which I find hard to understand.
@Sue22 Good job trying to get ppl to realize that the “C” student in the original post has nothing to do with C grades but no one seems to be listening
As mentioned above the title is just click bait. The article is just espouses what Ken Robinson has been preaching for years. Give a watch to this if you’ve never seen it:
I see it more and more with the product that the US public education is turning out - a lot of because of standardized tests. Even very bright kids that have been educated can have a tough time actually applying that education in a creative way to solve simple problems. Kids today are not be taught to be creative problem solvers. It’s taking things like the Russian Math Schools or after school clubs to get any experience with it.
This is the issue @sue22 pointed out. The author isn’t called C students creative. He’s named The C Student as in C for Creative, not C as in average or mediocre. The C has nothing to do with grades.
Just to be clear, our school doesn’t require a student to be on a travel team or take private lessons to make a selective team or group. It is just exceedingly rare that a kid who doesn’t to be accepted. For swim team, you have to meet a certain time as I understand it.
The cuts here take place on the field at the end of a practice, with no parents involved (unless a few show up to watch which is pretty discouraged). The kids cut are the ones whose names are not called. For theater decisions, a cast list is posted (used to be on the auditorium door, now it is online). There used to be no cuts for freshman in most sports and none for seniors, but that seems to have changed a bit as too many kids were kept on JV and so there are too many for varsity in some sports.
The tunnel thing in high school is very surreal to me. I don’t understand why parents would even be present to do that.
There really is an analogy to parents whose kids are not doing well in school, but feel like they should still be in honors or AP classes. The kid may want to take that course, but the school and teachers do not want to slow down the class to accommodate kids that are not prepared or can’t move at the right pace. For some kids, athletics is what keeps them engaged and happy. Not sure why some feel that isn’t a valid EC or that it is not fair that some kids are more athletic. It is not fair that some kids are smarter, or have better work habits, or don’t have an LD.
As someone mentioned before whether it is athletics or academics, if you want the rewards and awards work harder or get out of the way. And if you just aren’t as talented as the other guy or girl, that’s life. Deal with it. I just don’t get parents whining that little Suzy or Billy isn’t getting the recognition of the next kid when other kids are just better at certain things. If you don’t want to compete and deal with the consequences of competition, whether athletic or academic, don’t compete. Just be, but don’t begrudge others that do and excel, regardless of their arena.
I don’t understand why someone would need affirmation for earning good grades or high test scores. It seems for many students to be a personal goal, so it really shouldn’t be something that needs to be recognized other than honor roll and end of year awards. Getting straight As is not the same as being able to throw a 90 mph strike or excel at a sport. Many athletes who want to be recruited to play in college focus on doing well enough academically to meet a bar, but don’t want to put in any more time than necessary, mostly because they have such limited free time. The sport will do more for them in terms of college admissions than one or two points higher on their GPA.
The difference between an A or a B+ on many HS tests is a matter of a one or two small errors. The understanding of the concepts is pretty much the same whether it’s an A or B, and the A may be a little more mastery or just good luck with the question. For many students good grades are a means to end rather than a goal of their own.
One of my questions for the people planning on athletic scholarships for college, what are the chances that you will get an athletic scholarship at a school where you want to be academically? I know it happens but it seems to me the odds are against it. And for majority of high school athletes, there won’t be any athletic scholarship in college.
Part of the OP’s point was in his/her local school environment, athletics have become so privileged by local school admins to the point even the principal effectively denigrated the achievements of honor roll students at a ceremony which was SUPPOSED TO BE HONORING AND SPOTLIGHTING THEIR ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS by saying those who were athletes were “really amazing”.
While athletes may work hard for their achievements…the venue for honoring that is an awards ceremony for athletic achievement…not one for academic achievement.
It would feel just as out of place and wrong if the principal/coach singled out the top academic achievers among athletes at a ceremony meant to honor athletes right after winning the regional/statewide championships. Not the appropriate time and place to make the rest of the team feel like crap by singling out a few members for an achievement which had nothing to do with the achievement/achievers the ceremony was supposed to be spotlighting.
Because part of the point of having awards ceremonies is a way for societies and institutions and their respective leaderships to communicate what they value and to provide more encouragement for the type of behaviors/achievements to be honored at such ceremonies.
This is the very reason why institutions in a variety of areas in our society hold awards ceremonies and provide affirmation for what they consider meritorious achievements.
Also, schools are educational institutions whose mission theoretically is centered on academics and encouraging academic achievement. Last I checked, athletics aren’t considered a part of this except in an ancillary role.
If schools don’t provide honor roll and end of year awards…it communicates a clear and IMO…damning message the schools and their respective leaderships don’t value academic achievement of their students. Damning as IMO…that also shows those “educational leaders” are effectively abandoned the main mission of the institutions they are supposed to lead.
My kid’s school did that at their national signing day ceremony. The singled out three kids for being NMSF/IB/High Honors kids and several who were NHS members. No one thought it was weird. In fact, I doubt that I have ever been to an athletic awards ceremony where there was not at least one award for some blend of athletics and academics.
@kikidee9-kids who can do all that’s required to be star athletes and maintain a 4.0 are more outstanding than those who just maintain the GPA. I’m sorry that offends you.
I love the way our principal acknowledges all of our kids’ accomplishments in her weekly newsletter to parents.
In the sports awards ceremonies I’ve attended in many areas of the US…especially school districts where the prevailing attitude was athletics uber alles, academic achievement/awards weren’t highlighted.
They were kept separate and some sports-parents in those areas tended to take great umbrage at any proposed ideas to do so as they felt it would steal some of the spotlight off of the athletic achievement/achievers.