@scotlandcalling I don’t know if you are referring to me and my intelligence…but, think what you will. Didn’t say anything about intelligent athletes being terrible. The article refers to C students. But tell me…if you have a C student that doesn’t play anything and a C student that does…which would you give a pass? You would probably say they are so busy with the sports that it takes away. I don’t know. I think some kids go into sports can be one dimensional. Their self worth is based on that sport just as much as the grades for the others…or music or whatever. I am not jealous…I am pointing out the discrepancy of not just secondary and lower education…but those even going to the Pros. We idolize and give kids this idea that jocks are to be somehow worshipped. I don’t get it. Then again, the Superbowl ran a little long in my mind. Personal choices…but you need not down the smart kids for wanting to use the talents given to them for their success, too.
To back up a little, the article doesn’t really use the same definition of a C student we’re using and it doesn’t make any mention at all of athletics.
In other words, the author seems to be discriminating between creative, internally motivated students and grade grubbers, those motivated primarily by the GPA. He doesn’t even define his C student as one who earns C grades.
This approach is not really all that novel. It’s in keeping with the advice we often hear here to delve into those subjects that excite one, not simply cram in a bunch of AP’s to boost one’s weighted average.
The title of the article is, IMO, click bait.
Kiki, you are in for an unhappy life if you don’t learn to let it go.
I had a similar experience with the group of bullies in middle school.
Among them was a cohort with dreams of playing pro-basketball with the NBA and all had run-ins with the local cops for mugging passersby and fellow classmates only to have middle school admins and the bullies’ parents do their utmost to protect them from facing the legal and school disciplinary consequences and even defending them as “misunderstood”.
Two things which made things manageable was:
- I had a group of fellow bullied classmates who eventually coalesced into a group in which we decided to settle the issue through a series of afterschool schoolyard fights after teachers/admins would not only wouldn't lift a finger to help...but also defended/protected those bullies.
- My admission to the NYC Specialized High Schools which meant I was leaving bullies of this variety behind.
Bonus was later finding out from a cop during a visit to my old middle school that all those bullies are now serving long sentences at Rikers and upstate for multiple felonies. Seems like they went too far and they became too old and committed too many serious crimes for the school admins and parents to protect them from the consequences anymore. While not everyone believes in karma…this was one case which proves its possible existence.
It may be a lot of work to be a star athlete, but THAT WASN’T THE APPROPRIATE TIME AND PLACE for the principal to make such a statement.
The occasion was supposed to be one which spotlighted the achievement of those who made the academic honor roll.
The principal’s actions not only reinforced his and the local school’s greater prioritization of athletic achievements over academic ones, but also effectively stole the spotlight from the academic achievers during an event where the spotlight should have been solely on them. In the process, the principal effectively communicated the negative message that academics don’t matter. Not a positive message to convey to academic achievers…
Also, I doubt most sports-centered/crazed parents would be happy if the situation was reversed at an event where athletic achievements would be assumed to be the focus…such as the principal congratulating the HS athletic team for a regional/statewide championship win.
@kikidee9 I really wasn’t referring to anyone, just the attitude in general. I have just tired of this “envy society” which is only being made worse by the media and social media. It seems that more and more people are unhappy with who they are and only envy what someone else has or the perceived advantage that someone else has. Hate the athletes, hate the poor kids that get aid, hate the URMs or first gen, hate people with money, the list goes on and on…just hate anyone that has a perceived advantage or may take their kid’s spot.
One thing that is good about athletics is you just have to be better than the next guy/gal to earn your spot, you can’t hate on someone because they are better, they just are. Either work harder or get out of the way, no blaming someone else. Clean. Academic students get awards at assemblies, merit money, get into the best schools, etc. I think the only reason to feel an academic type is not getting their due is because they haven’t earned it compared to other academic types that have gotten it. Same thing applies here as in athletics, just work harder.
How has this thread turned into yet another Jocks vs. Nerds competition?
And people wonder why gangs form.
We weren’t a gang.
We just agreed that if any of us were attacked, we’d step in to defend each other. We didn’t start fights, but we weren’t going to back down or run away as well-meaning but clueless older adults suggested as we found that didn’t work and only encouraged more bullying.
Incidentally, all of the bullied middle school classmates in our group ended up having positive life outcomes by doing reasonably in high school, going off and doing respectably/excelling in college, and are productive well-adjusted adult citizens. Not convicted felons serving decades-long sentences in maximum security prisons…
OP, if your D is an athlete, then why isn’t she part of all that athlete worship and “parades” you describe? The athletic culture at your school sounds very extreme, if it’s actually as you say it is. But as was pointed out by others, in most American schools it’s only the very few superstars who are idolized, if any athlete is at all. And even then, it’s really only the superstars in a few sports–football or boys basketball–who get attention. I hate to say it, but the average student doesn’t give a hoot about girls’ field hockey or boys cross country. Reading some posters’ accounts of their childhood full of bullying jocks, I can’t help but think people are confusing their lives with some Hollywood movie plot. Seriously, do adults truly buy into such stereotypes? I don’t know, but when I was teased at school or my kids were teased, it wasn’t some jock gang doing it. It was individual mean people. Bad behavior is not the province of any one group.
Dudes, chill all around, okay?
Everybody gets shorted on recognition. Everybody has to battle problematic stereotypes. Everybody gets criticized because of their choices.
So stop trying to make your kids’ (or your own) issues along these lines bigger than everyone else’s. It’s pointless, and it’s certainly not going to win anyone over to your side.
That just isn’t true. In D1 sports, 6 sports get full rides, everything included, a sweet deal. For men, football and basketball, and for women basketball, tennis, gymnastics, and volleyball. For all other sports in D1 and for all D2 schools, the schools slice and dice the scholarships among the entire team, and if the student gets an athletic scholarship, that student can’t take need based aid from the school. The student can take merit aid on the same terms any other student at the school can take it, so all those C students are not getting huge scholarships, bigger than all the A students who worked so hard. It would be like Alabama saying “we’re limited to 12 full COA scholarships, but we need 35 of you to make a ’ NMF team’, so here is your share of the pot.”
Most athletes who need a lot of aid do the same thing those who need academic merit money do - they look for it. They go to smaller or lower ranked schools (or teams), they search for other money (including merit), they go to their second or third or fifth choice because it is a better deal financially for their families, families that may have spent thousands of dollars on club sports or training or travel over the years. Their dream of attending and playing for Hopkins and Duke and Harvard have to remain dreams, because the money just isn’t there. My daughter had 9 line items on her FA letter because she combined aid from many sources. Oh would my life be easier if she had just received a full athletic scholarship.
Her hs team had 11 seniors, two took athletic scholarships to play in college, but 5 or 6 received academic merit scholarships. My daughter was the only one who got both merit and athletic money. Of the 30 kids in her HS class who continued to play their sport in college, I think the only one who got a full ride was the girl who went to the Navy (and of course that is not an athletic scholarship). The 4 women rowers may have gotten close to full scholarships, but all 4 chased the the money to OOS flagships that many CCers wouldn’t consider for their academic superstars (Kansas, Kentucky). Most athletes got a few thousand to go to lower ranked schools or teams. About a dozen were going to D3 schools so got nothing. One went to MIT so $0, not even help getting in, because that’s MIT’s policy. She was smart enough to get into MIT so I guess she could have gone to other schools with a scholarship if she’d wanted to.
The C students don’t get big athletic offers. Stop worrying that they are taking money from those at the top of the class.
Why does it bother you when athletes are lionized? In my family, we couldn’t care less (D was on varsity tennis, but mostly for fun). Let the lemmings waste their time fawning all over the quarterback. It’s just of no concern to you. It’s like getting upset that the girls idolize Kim Kardashian. Stupid is as stupid does. This is high school. God willing, your kids will never see these people again. They will be on to bigger and better things and leave the others in the dust.
A few weeks ago, I heard an interview with Richard Sherman on the Dan LeBatard show on ESPN radio, and the man gave glorious testimony on his love for Pokémon.
My son is one of the biggest nerds rolling, and many of his classmates were shocked when his name came across the announcements with congratulations on making the cut for the state championship swim meet.
Also, not all sports matter to TPTB, at least in our school. Two sports get the love. When I went to pick S up early so we could travel to said meet, the staff in the office were less than aware that we had a swimmer going to the state meet:
Staffer: “Reason for leaving early?”
Me: “We are travelling 3+ hours to the state swimming championship”
Staffer: “The state swimming championships?”
Me: “Yes, S is swimming in it”
Staffer: “For our school?”
This makes a similar argument to the one in the OP’s article but in perhaps less controversial fashion.
https://theconversation.com/straight-a-students-may-not-be-the-best-innovators-54440
That article linked in the OP is the biggest bunch of rationalization I’ve read in a long time. Yay for mediocrity.
According to the article cited by Sue22, people who become innovators tended to have spent some of their time in college networking, discussing exciting ideas with classmates, and taking on new challenges. So the C student who was a C student because he was taking time away from his studies to learn new skills and engage in different activities unrelated to his class work was the sort of person to become an innovator. Never fear, no one is saying it’s the lazy kid who is partying and puking away, or the athlete who is more focused on landing a pro athletic career than learning physics, who is succeeding in this way.
@TheGFG my son isn’t an athlete b/c we moved here from another region and you don’t make these teams unless you have been trained and “molded” by the traveling teams. They are highly competitive. My son did try to make the baseball team…they were too ingrained with the system that he was told he could practice with them…but not play. It’s harsh. One of the teams if you are cut is announced with parents forming a tunnel and you walk through to your parent. interesting, huh? Walk of shame.
Thanks all for the insights. What’s funny is that my kids are super mellow. They don’t even like the limelight really. I guess since I have seen them work hard…I get frustrated when jerky administrators steal their little bit of sunshine.
Also, the article was a passive aggressive arrow at me…and I guess it hit a nerve. Thanks for all the info about athletes. I had no idea about the ins and outs of scholarships. I just keep hearing from parents that say the coaches are contacted and if any of their kids have decent grades…to let them know. It’s petty. I’ll take that…but, I am a mom. I’ve been called worse.
Walk of Shame? That’s horrible!!
I don’t think the author is talking about mediocre students at all. I believe he’s comparing different methods for approaching education. We tend to forget that people have different learning styles and they tackle problems differently. People like to believe that students who do well on standardized tests are smarter than students who don’t, but standardized tests evaluate only one type of intelligence. The author is pointing out that there are others, and that the people who approach learning in untraditional ways gain skills that benefit them after graduation – skills that traditional learners might not have had the opportunity to develop. I don’t agree that students with one type of intelligence will necessarily be more successful after graduation than another type. Success depends on opportunity, motivation, a little luck, and a lot of hard work.
There is a lot of confusion about athletic scholarships, financial aid and merit awards, even among parents of athletes. Every year, we hear from parents we know from my kid’s sport about their kid getting athletic money to attend X school. Only, we know that school is D3, and is prohibited by NCAA rules from giving athletic scholarships. Or they say their kid got big merit award from a school like a NESCAC which, by its conference rules, can’t give any aid except financial aid, no athletic and not even merit. Parents often don’t appreciate the differences, or they re-shape it to make it sound better. In my kid’s sport, D1 gives the equivalent of 9.9 full scholarships spread over a roster of 22-30 kids. Doesn’t go far. There is a lot of mis-information out there, even among the families who should make it their business to understand the landscape.
My kid got 1/2 tuition merit awards at his EA schools, for his academics. He is a recruited athlete and will play his sport in college. Sports opened the door to conversations with the coach, but every single conversation quickly became – what are your grades and your scores, are you taking the most rigorous curriculum available, and what else do you do besides school and sports. Every coach talked about the kind of kid they were looking for, a kid with character and leadership, who would contribute to the school in many ways, not just to his own team. Not one suggested that his athletic contribution was the most important thing he brought to campus, and he met with probably 20 coaches over 2 years. We are happy for him because he realized his dream to keep playing his sport, it’s as essential to him as painting might be to an artist, or writing fiction for a writer. It’s who he is, and we couldn’t have changed that if we tried. We are just happy he has good choices among schools that are well-suited to him.