<p>Thanks, Countingdown.
At Harvard, all graduate Teaching Fellows and all undergraduate Course Assistants are required to attend all lectures; they are also required to lead sections (which are held one hour a week) and grade homework assignments. It is indeed the equivalent of taking another course!</p>
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<p>That’s pretty surprising, given what I read on here. I wasn’t really serious about the 1% but I certainly didn’t think it would be more than 10%. What do you mean by a “lot”? </p>
<p>THe main point of my post is that I don’t really trust multiple choice exams, particularly for math. For example, I was able to answer every question correctly on the MIT Math Placement Exam for Physics that I found on the internet, and I am sure I am not ready for an actual class at anything but a fairly basic level (I am an engineer but haven’t taken or used Calculus for over 25 years).</p>
<p>Here is something else to consider.</p>
<p>My S received a lot of AP credit when he started an engineering degree, and jumped into some of the upper-level courses. He needs a minimum GPA to keep his merit scholarship, and he is holding onto it by the skin of his teeth. Had he taken (re-taken) some of the intro classes, he GPA might have been higher.</p>
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<p>This is another thing I was thinking. Unless you really need to graduate in less than four years for money reasons or whatever, why the big rush? Why not take it a little easy your first semester while acclimating to college? I don’t think this really gets held against you at grad or prof school admissions so much as a GPA slip up.</p>
<p>D also needs to maintain a certain GPA to stay in her program/maintain her scholarship. I think she received something like 60 credits due to APs- mainly using them to fulfill distribution requirements. She’s had many years of chemistry in HS, but is taking into chem to bolster her GPA against the dreaded physics course. She is also considering a minor in a foreign language which is only a possibility due to AP credit.</p>
<p>Of course I forgot that a lot of students are completing double and triple majors these days, so they may need to skip ahead to get all their classwork in. In that case I can see why they want to skip intro math.</p>
<p>Things are certainly a lot different from when I went to school.</p>
<p>marite, S has the same requirements about running the recitation and grading papers, too. It is quite the time commitment considering what he gets paid!</p>
<p>From D’s experience, kids are placed at certain level for Foreign language base on their foreign language placement test. She did not have AP Spanish, but had to take Junior level anyway. She needed only one semester. She had opposite experience with Bio. Since she is pre-med, Bio AP will not satisfy Med. School Bio reguiremnt. In addition, the very first Bio in college was way way much more difficult than AP Bio in HS. Without background of the first Bio, D would have not be able to continue with next Bio classes. Basically, the only APs that worked perfectly for her were AP US History and AP English. So, my answer is that AP credits depend on each individual situation. There is no general solution.</p>
<p>(And AP US History and AP English bear absolutely no relationship to any college course of any quality.)</p>
<p>^^^which is why UChicago doesn’t accept them for placement! S2 is finding this with most of the social studies APs at the schools he is considering – not many schools will give credit for more than one history or gov’t AP (or require two to get any credit). Not that he cares – he will be devouring all those courses anyway.</p>
<p>OTOH, he has also found that a 4 on AP Lit gets him more at many schools than a 5 on AP Lang.</p>
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I’d rather learn new material than review old stuff.</p>
<p>I’m a little surprised by the MIT numbers, but it might be useful to remember that 10 there are a lot of poor schools in our country and 2) that at least some MIT undergrads aren’t engineers (architects and business majors for example)</p>
<p>I suspect that AP US History and AP English are as good as the intro courses in many colleges in the US. Not all colleges are particularly selective.</p>
<p>I think that it is best considered on a college by college, course by course basis. For example, AP Psych bore absolutely no relationship to the Intro to Psych course at UCSD (which was much more cognitive psych when I took it), but it wouldn’t have been a bad fit for the Intro to Psych course at UCLA. Music teachers tell me that the AP Music Theory is great prep for college, but you absolutely don’t skip the college music theory class, it just helps you do better in it. Most of the heavy duty science and calculus courses geared towards majors or engineers at selective colleges are going to be more intensive and theoretical (involving proofs, for example, in calculus) than the corresponding AP course. On the other hand, going on to a lightweight more advanced calculus class (calculus for social sciences, for example) does not seem to be any problem. At D’s school, getting a 4 or 5 on AP Lit gets you out of the first of two writing courses, and that seems to be fine. It does not waive any courses you might be required to take for an English major, however. AP US History does not map well into any of her college’s history courses, which all are more specific. The foreign language AP exams seem to be good preparation for the corresponding classes in college, and I don’t see much point in going back in the sequence for them if you got a 4 or a 5. I’m not sure that a 3 cuts it, though.</p>
<p>DS will show up with AP Eng (both lit and comp), AP Latin, AP Calc AB and BC, AP Stat, AP Chem, AP Physics, I forget what else…all taken Jr and Sr yr…</p>
<p>One of the schools DS is considering wants him to take a second language to fill their core stuff even if he has a 5 on the Latin Vergil AP. sigh— which is fine–he will take Italian but its kind of a pain…</p>
<p>Hopefully the Eng will put him up in that area…his school is VERY HEAVY on writing preparation…which is tough now but we hear good things from preants, teachers and students about how thankful they are for the prep they did at xyz school because they have a much easier time writing than their classmates.</p>
<p>As for the rest–after math placement tests we would know more…but I think he will use the APs as a primer to heavy university work…assuming he gets into the school he’s shooting for…</p>
<p>I think APs sometimes open a door but maybe thats about it.</p>
<p>JHS,
For pre-med Zoology major with minors in Music Composition and Neuroscience and tons of ECs, not having to take History (that has been the hardest class in HS) and not risking to lower your college GPA, that has to be as close as possible for Med. School applicants, has been a tremendous relief. D. actually had to take one semester of English in addition to AP English becacuse she had “4” on AP exam. Her Honors English at college has been one of her easiest classes and way way easier and less time consuming than her AP English in HS. However, what you said, was actually very true about AP Bio. The first Bio class in college was significantly harder than AP Bio in HS. As pre-med. D. had to take Bio starting from the beginning anyway.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that people say that college Bio is harder than AP, my husband (a Harvard bio major) thought my son’s AP class looked much harder and more complete that what he had at Harvard! Of course bio knowledge has exploded since those days… We have two excellent AP teachers in bio.</p>
<p>“Of course bio knowledge has exploded since those days” - it explods every year. D had the same textbook (different edition) for her HS Honors Bio (which she took before HS AP Bio) and her first Bio class in college. Two editions of the same book were very different. And as I mentioned before, apparently it did not make college Bio easier for her. Many honors (mostly valedictorians) pre-meds in this class changed their major after taking this first Bio.</p>
<p>Mathmom:</p>
<p>S took Intro Bio at the HES because of scheduling conflict. He found the AP exam very easy (for someone who hates memorization!) but the Intro Bio exams (midterm and final) were more difficult (and he did not do as well on them as on the AP exam). And, of course Intro Bio was taught in a shorter time period than AP, not only on a yearly basis but also on a weekly basis. I calculate that altogether it was taught in half the time as the AP class. Intro Bio and AP Bio used exactly the same textbook.</p>
<p>…and no Harvard, not Ivy, not any elite school, D. is at state college.</p>