After College

<p>Here's an issue:</p>

<p>I am a highly dedicated musician, and while music is my strongest passion, I am also well aware that I will more than likely have to double major to find employment once I graduate. Despite my insistence of this, my parents will not listen and just keep saying that music will lead me nowhere in life and I need a "reasonable" passion to pursue. If there are any musicians out there, or friends of musicians, can you please tell me if this is true? Or even better yet, just give me a brief plot of potential opportunities as a music major after College, and how feasible these post college goals are to achieve. I want my parents to respect my dreams, and need a more than valid argument.... and some confidence in myself.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Well, you are not alone: this may be one of the most frequent topics around here. For starters, read about the different degrees available in music (and something else in some cases):
[Double</a> Degrees | Peabody Conservatory](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html]Double”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html)</p>

<p>Folks on this forum can advise you on schools for various options.</p>

<p>This is what I have written in the past, and others can chime in. A BA or BM in music is a bachelor’s like any other and gives access to jobs that require a bachelor’s, to grad and professional schools like med and law and business and so on. In fact, an old statistic I once read said that more music majors were accepted at medical school than any other group, at 66 %. The discipline of musicians is respected everywhere.</p>

<p>The music world has changed a lot in recent years, partly as a result of the Internet. Graduates are more entrepreneurial and often make their own opportunities, sometimes in combination with a “day job,” sometimes not. It is not always about “making it” to a spot in an orchestra, by any means. Schools have courses in business and entrepreneurial studies that are helpful with this, and there is also a lot going on with outreach and education.</p>

<p>Volunteering and interning with music organizations can result in accumulating considerable skills in fields as diverse as non-profit management, development and fundraising, or sound engineering. Music grads have access to jobs in these fields and others, even in organizations that are not music-related. I know a music grad who is working for Disney, another one who manages Grammy winners, one who works for a record label, and another who teaches low income kids.</p>

<p>There is some cross-over between computer science and music which can provide a career direction. If that is an interest of yours, we can suggest programs and schools.</p>

<p>There is always grad school in music! Music is a legitimate academic area of study and career path that is complex and varied.</p>

<p>After hard economic times, with the price of college and the abundance of loans, it is natural for parents to worry. But it is also true that for these reasons and many others, college is being viewed increasingly as career preparation, as vocational rather than a time to explore and follow interests. I am sorry for this. You will find that many parents on here encouraged their child’s “passion” for music and that it worked out, but I also understand it may be hard to convince your parents. </p>

<p>You do not even have to double major or do a double degree, in my opinion: we’ll see what others say. Music can be a pretty intense major and you should also know a double major can be difficult though possible, and a double degree usually takes 5 years.</p>

<p>Perhaps there is a teacher or professor or music professional who could talk with your parents with you-? Good luck!</p>

<p>This is a good thread on the subject: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Employment is not a sure thing no matter what your major is. This year I heard about kids with engineering and math degrees struggling to find jobs in this economy. So I think it is important that you not waste your education on something only because it will lead you to a good job, when that job might not be there when you graduate.</p>

<p>What is a reasonable passion? Literature, philosophy, history, pure mathematics, art etc…There are many things to major in, in college that are not necessarily “reasonable”. If “reasonable” was your goal than you would skip college and go to a trade or vocational school and become a plumber or carpenter or mechanic.</p>

<p>Are there musicians who are making a living being musicians? Well ever professor at my son’s conservatory is. Every private teacher my son had in high school is. The teachers at my son’s prep school are professional musicians. Do these musicians support themselves by only doing gigs? Nooooo. All artists must learn to become entrepreneurs, grant writers, public relations people, ambassadors, collaborators etc…That is the nature of what it takes to be an artist. </p>

<p>As for respect? Respect is something you earn over time. The more you develop confidence in yourself the more likely it is others will respect you. Part of becoming a young adult is learning to respect yourself enough to follow what you feel is the right career path for you. It is about learning who you are and what matters to you and not about pleasing others. Your parents might want you to make tons of money in some finance job but if it makes you miserable then you might not respect yourself.</p>

<p>I can understand your parent’s concern, they look at music, with all its pitfalls, and are afraid if you major in music, that you will come out, not be able to find a living in music, and then have to start over, etc. As others have said, college these days is getting to be seen more and more as vocational training, rather than what it was supposed to be, a higher level of education that would broaden student’s minds and so forth. Even people on here have said things I disagree with, where they compare studying for a BA in music where you have to take core courses in humanities and such to a BM degree and said the BM degree was vocational training…they are different experiences, but I dispute that the core courses you take in college are that much relevant to the work place then having gone through a BM in performance…</p>

<p>The thing to keep in mind is that college degrees in many fields either give you only rudimentary knowledge of the real world, or in many cases, are no better preparation than music would be. Put it this way, you get a degree in English, in history, in the literature of Ancient China, philosophy, political theory, etc, etc, it won’t have in general much relevance to a real job either, in terms of direct knowledge transfer, yet people major in those things, and get jobs in a variety of things. Sure, getting a BA or BS in computer science will make getting a programming job easier, or a BA in engineering into an entry level engineering job is a requisite, but many jobs don’t have that. More importantly, in today’s world many people get grad degrees to go into their chosen profession, so someone with a BM in music could go get an MBA or a masters in computer science (depending on the school), and do something else.</p>

<p>There is another factor here, too, and that is going into something that isn’t your passion. I can just hear parents saying “passion doesn’t put food on the table”, but that isn’t really true. Without passion or at least strong interest, someone taking jobs because ‘they pay well’ often end up not doing well. Lot of kids go into the Ivy league rat-race,wanting to go into investment banking cause that is where the money is, and when they face the reality of it, leave, the attrition rate is high, because to do that you either have a passion for the job, or the passion to make a ton of money, otherwise it tends to burn people out. Go into computer science without having some kind of passion for it, whether it is programming or the business need behind it, and you will probably be another mediocre person putting in their 9-5. </p>

<p>Put it this way, within 5 years of graduating, a lot of students who went to Juilliard are no longer directly in music, and by 10 years, it is a large percentage…but the thing is, miraculously, most of those people go on to do other things, either in the arts (maybe not as a performer) or in other fields. IT has a ton of people who studied music in it, some of them still do music on the side while this is their day job, and while music is their ultimate passion, that passion can drive them forward in their day job, because it supports their passion. </p>

<p>As far as the training itself goes, if you go for a BM degree, it teaches you things most college courses in academia don’t (and believe me, over the years, I have seen a lot of stellar, straight A college students, who had been high ranking SAT/GPA in high school, crash and burn because of that disconnect). Music majors among other things have to be self driven, much more than academic students, because music is a lot more ambiguous. In academics, you take courses, you know when the midterm and final and tests are, you know the projects, when they are due, it is pretty straightforward, and while you need to be disciplined, compare this to music. In music there are no assignments per se, the student is expected to practice (a lot), both individual work and the stuff they are doing in orchestra and chamber and so forth and they have to decide what to practice, how long to practice it and when, which includes trying to find practice rooms, it includes finding the time in a hectic schedule and it amounts to achieving a goal that isn’t all that set in concrete, because with arts being ‘good enough’ may not mean anything, in academics it can mean an A. And guess what? In the real world, in positions of any kind of responsibility other than repetitive, boring tasks, that kind of ambiguity exists, with multiple people needing you to do things, with limited time, evaluating relative priorities, and adjusting efforts to what is going on. </p>

<p>In something like chamber music, you don’t prepare your part right, and the other members of the ensemble fail with you, which is very much like the real world. In college, you write a program, it does what the professor wrote as the objective, you will get a good grade. In the real world, someone will review your code and tell you it is sloppy, QA testers will find all kinds of problems with it, business users will wonder what you wrote cause it isn’t what they want…in music, you get used to that, you practice your tail off, go into your lesson or chamber group, and your head gets taken off for ‘playing it wrong’, your teacher wonders how the heck you got into music school,etc…you learn in music to deal with difficult people, you learn a lot of academic oriented music theory and so forth, and that means a lot.</p>

<p>I can speak as a hiring manager, and people who have studied music are usually pretty highly thought of, because of the discipline required to do it and because people going into it usual do it for passion, rather than ‘to make money’. </p>

<p>I am not saying don’t dual major/dual degree, I am simply saying that the idea that music is only good if you go into the field is not the reality, that it provides a basis for a lot of jobs or futures.</p>

<p>OP—you mention “post college goals”. What are those goals?</p>

<p>Thank you, everybody. These answers are more thorough and helpful than I ever could have hoped for. It is very reassuring to hear that others feel for my plight and can even defend it as well as all of you have. </p>

<p>In response to your question, musicamusica, I use the phrase “post college goals” very loosely. As I still have not decided what I wish to major in besides music, my future goals are still malleable and apt to change. It is a fair question, and at this point in time my best answer is to say that I would like to play more than I would like to be a private instructor. Everybody here has told me, in one way or another, that I need to believe in myself and playing in a variety of settings would definitely bolster my confidence as I become a more seasoned pianist. </p>

<p>Once again, thank you; all of you.</p>

<p>Just want to add that there are students who continue to study, practice and perform piano or other instruments but go to school for something else entirely. In other words, doing piano outside of school, or outside of academics, in a serious way, is always a possibility. It’s tough and there are downsides to this for sure, but it is done and it is done by some excellent musicians.</p>

<p>Also, many college/university programs are academic music, not performance, anyway. History, theory, ethnomusicology, technology in music, composition etc. </p>

<p>So you can:
go to conservatory or music school for a BM
go to college/university for a BA in music
go to college/university for a BA in something else and do music in other ways
go to college/university and do a double major for a BA or BS, w/music as one of the majors
go to college/university AND a conservatory/music school or any institution (s) that offer a
double degree program either on campus or with another school, usually 5 years</p>

<p>To me, if playing piano is your “passion” right now, a conservatory makes a lot of sense and all of my previous comments apply. If you have other interests that are academic, that would be a different picture. For future goals, after college, as you posted, you should be fine no matter what you do, albeit with the uncertainties shared by most graduates these days!</p>

<p>I will tell you what I told my son four years ago – it keeps it simple.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Are you willing to find other ways to sustain yourself economically while you pursue your passion, possibly part-time? If the answer is yes, then study your passion.</p></li>
<li><p>Are you flexible enough with your notion of the future to retrain if you find that you need to acquire more marketable, job-specific skills – If the answer is yes, pursue your passion.</p></li>
<li><p>Do you understand that it is possible you will be economically disadvantaged by a decision to pursue the performing arts - and that while though you can be equally economically disadvantaged with other degrees - you feel your life will be happier for the pursuit even if it means long hours of underpaid sustenance work? </p></li>
</ol>

<p>If your answer is “Yes I UNDERSTAND this and am willing to be 100% responsible for my decision” then your folks need to honor your courage – because this does take courage – and help you follow your passion.</p>

<p>I admire my son for following this route and hope the universe rewards him :wink: But either way, I know that he had his eyes wide open before he began the journey, and now it’s his to take. I also know that pursuing your passion and then choosing to do something different is better than not having pursued your passion in the first place, and that regret is a useless emotion.</p>

<p>So best wishes on your journey. There is no “safe” way, and often those who put themselves out there, who take the “risk” are actually the very same ones who are rewarded in the end :wink: Your parents need to understand that you are willing to “own” your decision, and as such, all you need is their support for the next four years. That support should not be conditional on subject matter. They don’t even KNOW what careers there will be in the future – MY JOB didn’t exist when I went to college ;)</p>

<p>As a BFA (film) student trained at the equivalent of a conservatory type program (meaning studio-based), I learned a lot of transferable skills that have served me well in multimedia and digital marketing, as well as IT project management. </p>

<p>Over the years, I’ve produced news format media, music media, project managed public art installations, worked directly in journalism and editing, taught writing, and now am principally a creative director at a digital firm. Skills are transferable and learning is a life-long proposition :wink: Help your parents understand this!</p>

<p>well said, Kmcmom. One of the things a teacher my son uses, who also works with a lot of professional musicians, said to him was that in his experience the ones who have the most difficult time in music or after are those who think they are going to be the principal X of the Chicago Symphony, a soloist, whatever, and so forth, so they focus on that as a goal, rather than trying to find themselves a way to make a living in music, and then are surprised by how hard it is simply to make a living in music, to establish yourself, and then find out they didn’t really think the what if, if they don’t make it in music. It is hard even for those with their eyes open to the reality, going into it with dreams of glory makes it twice as hard I think. </p>

<p>It is funny, we were talking today about an article where this HR guru was talking about hiring, and he was talking about their effort to glean data on what made a successful employee, and they found that all these claims of things that work, don’t…for example Google was notorious for asking people for GPA’s and test scores well after they had been working out there, they have stopped that, because <em>ta dah</em> they figured out grades and test scores don’t predict work performance, the cute problems like estimating how many golf balls can fit in an airplane, same thing…and they specifically said school is an artificial world, you figure out what the professor wants and get a good grade, and more importantly, as we agreed, school is mostly a solo effort, in the real world, it is in teams…and a lot of music training is in a team approach, ensemble playing (at least if the student is smart about it), is key, and you learn how to work with others, including difficult people, and also learn to deal with ambiguity, like you practice a part for a piece, and the conductor tells you to do it another way, and so forth…lots of other skills, too, much of it self directed, figuring out how much practice is enough, finding the time, and so forth…</p>

<p>kmc: Everything that comes out of your mouth (keyboard) is wise and practical, but your remarks above are just brilliant. Let us frame that and tack it to the beginning of the forum!</p>

<p>Hey, thanks for the love and right back atchya :)</p>

<p>I agree and tried to post similar appreciation but it somehow got lost. Thank you! Am sending this to some folks I know.</p>

<p>So KMCmom, your post (#1 and following 3 paragraphs) needs to be made into a poster or something. It would sell well and support your son’s “passion”!! Seriously.</p>

<p>I also love this comment: "I also know that pursuing your passion and then choosing to do something different is better than not having pursued your passion in the first place, and that regret is a useless emotion. " Maybe that could be in the poster too :)</p>

<p>I have more thoughts on this subject. But for now, let me give you some data about the business.</p>

<p>[Five</a> facts about professional artists in the United States](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/29/five-facts-about-professional-artists-in-the-united-states/]Five”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/29/five-facts-about-professional-artists-in-the-united-states/)</p>

<p>That was a Washington Post article citing an NEA study that used US Census Bureau Data</p>

<p>[NEA</a> Arts Data Profile Series: Issue 1: Equal Opportunity Data Mining: National Statistics about Working Artists](<a href=“http://www.arts.gov/research/EEO/index.html]NEA”>http://www.arts.gov/research/EEO/index.html)</p>