I’ve known @Mom2aphysicsgeek for many years online. Her dd is exceptionally talented and self-driven.
American’s merit scholarships have changed dramatically in the past years, at least since my S’12 was admitted. The Presidential Scholarship tops out at $20K. The 25 freshmen admitted to AU Honors receive an additional $10K.
$30K off a COA of $60K is not what this family needs.
I don’t know if the University of Rochester is on your list, but I think it should be. They definitely offer merit aid, sometimes very substantial. And look into their “fifth year tuition free,” which might be of interest to a student like your D.
I am skeptical about the U of KY plan for a student like yours. I don’t think spending 2 yrs abroad is likely to lead to a strong background in economics, which would be excellent matched with strong language skills. Don’t forget that there are other ways, some self-supporting, to spend a year abroad after college. In France, for example, there is the assistant teacher program. (Forgetting the actual name…)
That probably is a much better way of presenting the info. She is already at or approaching college graduation language proficiency goals for many depts’ language majors and still has this academic yr to progress further. (It really depends on the dept. one thing we have learned is that foreign languages are not like science, math, engineering, etc. The variation between depts can be extreme. Unfortunately, most of the schools with automatic scholarships are at the lower end goals.)
Fulbright sends kids to teach English and for the cultural exchange,post grad. They’d like the Russian skills. The (somewhat) issue with France is the volume of kids applying.
Its been mentioned up-thread but if your daughter is a US citizen, likely to pass an extremely detailed background check, and willing to work for US government intelligence agencies there are several that she will be almost irresistible to as a college student, not just after college graduation. If your income isn’t too high some offer college scholarships combined with summer internships. Even if your income is too high there are paid summer internships in languages of interest (which absolutely include Russian). Much like ROTC this isn’t a path for everyone but for those for whom it is a good fit it can be an awesome opportunity.
Do you worry about undermatching with the automatic scholarship schools and the other restrictions on your college search?
When comparing schools with full tuition scholarships, also compare room/board & fees (very high at some schools)… Then check into what the rules and costs are living off campus. That will allow you to consider the 4 year comparison.
Do you tell her to forsake her exceptional talent ?
It’s not so much the problem of ‘undermatching’ as it is of being off the charts in one subject/skill/field.
Of course we do, but unfortunately, it doesn’t change the limitations. She is as proactive as possible in trying to find a dept that can help her achieve her goals. She has emailed countless dept heads and faculty. (She can crank out her questions like a pro now.) When a school looks promising, we visit in person, and when possible, she sits in on classes.
Reactions of various depts have ranged from “Please, don’t come here bc we have nothing to offer you” to “You can always do independent study” to “We would be excited to have you as a student and we will definitely help you achieve your goals.” (And the different responses from the different schools is hard to anticipate.)
For independent study, she has learned to dig into what that means. At one school, the response was translating textbooks. When she dug further and asked about conversational skills, the response was (not kidding), “There are usually 1-2 native speakers enrolled on campus. You might be able to work something out with them.” But at another the response was, “I will help you create courses targeting the specific skills you need. If you need work on verbs in motion, that could be a course. I would love to have a student to do in-depth literature studies with. If you want to read Dostoevsky, we can read and discuss Dostoevsky. You can assist me with my research.” Etc. Very, very different responses.
Some of the best opportunities are actually at schools that would surprise you. Pockets of heritage speakers mean those schools tend to have classes helping those students improve their skills and more in language vs. in translation classes.
We are entering into this with as much information as possible. We are doing the best we can with the budget we have. (Same as with all of our other kids. This isn’t the first time we have run into this. Her older brother who is currently a college jr graduated from high school with multiple 300 math and physics credits. The difference is that grad level courses in those subjects are more common. But not all,schools let UG take numerous grad level classes.) More than likely the school will be a compromise in some areas, but she will make it work bc she is motivated to.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek I looked through the thread and while it’s clear that you are looking for great merit options, I did want to ask you what you could afford to pay. There may be good options that you can afford at list price.
I’m not crazy about foreign language majors because you take far more courses than are needed for fluency taking away time for courses that provide broader benefits. For someone who wants to study what’s considered a non-direct employment major (meaning that few graduates use the major directly to work in that field), I think that the key is to develop critical thinking skills (literary criticism, philosophy, political science - basically anything that emphasizes grappling with hard problems through academic writing) and analytical skills (I’m thinking basic mathematical skills like programming, calculus, statistics, optimization such as via microeconomics, and maybe accounting if eventually understanding a business is foreseen). These skills are highly employable in many domains and are all great preparations for potential graduate school or potential professional school (business, law, government, etc). I think the goal is to develop a maturity about the world around you understanding exactly what creating value looks like, while at the same time, studying a subject that fascinates and elevates you. Too many students don’t try to develop that maturity and are left with few options at the end.
Did you look at Rutgers? It seems they have solid Russian course offerings probably because of large number of heritage speakers. They do have large merit scholarships, most going to instate students but maybe your daughter can snatch one. They require an essay and are part of Coalition so there should be a chance to shine.
@ClassicRockerDad I read the same thread and her budgetary constraints are clear. What schools can she afford at list price given her budget? I would also love to see the research to back up your claim that foreign language majors don’t teach important skills and require more courses than are required for fluency. I suspect that if that were true, we’d have many more bilingual speakers in this country than we actually have.
@ClassicRockerDad Our budget is small and only a fraction of our expected contribution. About $12,000.
In terms of your post, that is what dd is thinking about. Her first concern is making sure she can progress in her languages. They don’t have to be a major, but she needs to have access to people willing to help her progress. French is not a problem, but Russian with extensive offerings is not as easy to find. The other focus is what she isn’t so clear about. She has ideas, but the things she is interested in are the areas that those other threads were dismissing.
@itsgettingreal17 LOL!! Did you see this link in the least valuable majors thread? https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2011/06/16/connor_essay_on_why_majors_matter_in_how_much_college_students_learn Foreign languages win for critical thinking skills. (I enjoyed the article. I design most of my kids’ courses myself. My educational philosophy is a blend Bloom’s taxonomy and Ignatian ideals.)
Clearly foreign language majors learn important skills. However, could those skills be learned by studying the foreign language within another major? I don’t have any data. My D1 was crazy about her language courses, and took a lot of them for her electives, but she thought doing a whole major was just much more than she needed given her broad range of other interests.
My point was more to focus on skill development and worldly maturity as important educational goals regardless of the major. Get those skills and one becomes vastly more employable than those without them. Its far less risky to study any major when one does so while cognizant of their skill development and maturity. It pains me to see graduates with loads of debt who developed no marketable skills who wonder why the world does not come beckoning.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek Don’t know if a place like Truman State is on your radar at all. It’s an public honors liberal arts college in rural Missouri that attracts some very bright students and provides decent scholarships that discount it’s already very low list price. It’s not ideal, and they often don’t fill up, so it’s not crazy risky to wait and see if there are other options, but it’s just something that you might want to be aware of as a fallback should getting the scholarships that you are looking for not materialize. They have a Russian major.
@ClassicRockerDad She applied to Truman. The Russian dept has told her that their goal is intermediate-high or possibly advanced-low and they don’t have the resources to help their students advance further. She might reach intermediate-high this yr. (I am not sure bc her tutor does everything in terms of CEFR levels and she is progressing through B1. I am not sure how things match up.)
Has she applied for the big outside scholarships? Not that they would take her through four years, but it might be a start.
Davidson Fellowship, Norstrom, Coca-Cola, and so on.
And I think I missed it. Do colleges like Stanford expect you to be full pay? Or would they give you some aid? I don’t know if I saw your EFC posted in the thread.
I’d love to continue on this, just because I’m trying to figure out where to set limitations on my own kid’s search. How do you balance sound financial planning with making sure that you don’t totally undermatch and wind up with a poor academic fit?
I know that you have a budget limitation. (And no loans?)
You’ve said you won’t consider a merit scholarship that requires a student to maintain a GPA higher than 3.2. (Despite the fact that she sounds brilliant and could probably maintain a higher GPA?)
And obviously you prefer guaranteed scholarships, but I’m not sure how you’ve balanced the guaranteed versus competitive full-rides on her college application list?
I remember looking at a website for a LAC that D16 was interested in and there was an interview with the parents of a very successful alum and one of their comments was, “We’re so glad we sold our house so son could attend Veryfine College!” I promptly crossed the school off our list! That would simply be a line too far for us.
My first to graduate had a relatively common academic profile and interests that could be pursued in a number of different places, which gave us a lot of room to finely sort for financial fit. My second is not as “pointy” as your D, but is pointy enough that the initial set of schools is smaller, so balancing academic fit and financial fit is going to be a bit harder. Where to draw the red lines as far as financial planning is something I’m still puzzling through.
How did you set your financial limitations? Did you use a particular book or financial planner for advice?
I wonder if a trick might be to go sideways. This is a self-directed gal. Are there affordable school where professors themselves, in depts other than Russian Studies, are native speakers and willing to work with her in the language? Eg, profs in econ, lit, etc. Maybe you checked this. Or maybe it’s too far-fetched.
I’m just going to throw this out there ( knowing OP’s daughter has probably already considered this and rejected it) for the purpose of leaving no stone unturned:
To reiterate others’ statements, OP’s daughter has attained unusual mastery of French and Russian but majoring in these languages may provide limited direct employability. Also, it seems few affordable schools can provide the depth of study in Russian she needs.
But, I’m assuming her language aptitude is broad and deep. Is it the specific culture and literature of Russian only that she is fascinated with? Could she develop an equal passion and fluency in another language for which there is a dire need in business or diplomacy (whether that be Mandarin, Arabic, Urdu or something very obscure…I don’t know which language skills are needed, BTW.) I would think that, combined the French and Russian she already has, with some course work in economics, etc., would make her pretty formidable.