After recent discussions on value of different degrees, very confused for our daughter. Any advice?

Parents Forum
1

I would love to read others’ thoughts on how they would direct our high school sr bc I am thoroughly confused.

While reading @ucbalumnus’s thread on least valuable majors http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1921560-least-valuable-majors-p1.html , I saw mention of @blossom’s POV on business degrees. That led me to the parents not allowing a major in literature thread http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1920881-meet-the-parents-who-wont-let-their-children-study-literature.html Those threads have made me even more uncertain than I already was.

Well, we fit the profile of the confused parents described in many of the posts. My husband has (and has always had) a great career as a chemE. My degrees are in psychology and education which I have definitely put to good use by homeschooling our children with a focus on Bloom’s taxonomy and developing critical thinking skills. Our kids graduate from high school well-prepared for pursuing whatever goals they have for their futures. But, our ability to offer our dd advice in terms of her chosen areas is nil.

She is an incredibly strong student. She loves anything and everything to do with languages and literature. She is the type of kid who reads epic poetry for pleasure reading. She loves foreign language. She took Latin for 5 yrs. Her French is at a high level. She read an abridged version of Les Mis this summer in French (abridged as in over 350 pages, but compared to the actual length of the unabridged version, very short.) She is an excellent student of Russian. She has won regional and international awards for Russian.

She is a strong student across all subjects. If she wanted to be, she could be just as advanced in math as her physics geek brother. She took cal last yr as an 11th grader and had a near perfect grade. That said, math is not her favorite subject. She is currently taking Econ and is really enjoying it. Science is the one area she really doesn’t enjoy. She is still a great student in science, but it is definitely not an area she wants to pursue at all.

She also has a very (stress very) limited budget for college. She is applying to Big MAC (merit aid colleges). She has to have full tuition covered which as a NMSF is doable. Paying room and board is our max ability to contribute. One of her top choices is a state u with a well regarded IB program. (I wonder if it is the one @blossom referred to??)

She doesn’t have a clear idea of what she wants to major in beyond French and Russian. French and Russian literature are a given bc she will be entering college taking those level classes in both. She enjoys studying cultures and learning about political systems.

Any advice to pass on to her to consider?

(Ironically, we have a niece who has an UG degree in IR/IS and a master’s from a European college in Econ who is directionless for a career and another niece with an art history UG degree from a small directional public university, no masters degree, and is a top female exec in NYC in a field 100% unrelated to art!)

2

Your last point is salient. It depends a lot on the kid and their drive & personality. My political science kid is doing whiz bang well in an unrelated business field. International business is an option for your kid – pushing hard to find internships/relevant summer experiences, especially after her soph & junior years is important.

3

I am happy to offer a perspective but am not really sure what your question is.

Should she triple major so she can do the French/Russian thing and combine it with something practical? That depends… triple majors are rarely as useful as kids think they are, and if they are going to add a semester of tuition (which they frequently do- even with solid planning) then absolutely- no.

Should she apply to your state’s flagship? 100% yes.

Should she NOT major in French/Russian so she can get a more practical degree? You need to ask her. Does she want to spend four years studying something else?

Is she employable with a degree from an LAC (merit aid?) in an unpractical area? Of course- but so much depends on choices that she makes apart from which college to attend.

If I can be helpful let me know, but other than thinking that your D is terrific- not sure what specific impressions I can share with you.

And of course- a smart, curious kid like your D is highly likely to find a discipline in college which she had never heard of before… and decide that THIS is what she wants to study. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all.

A kid who likes econ may like urban planning. A kid who loves languages may love linguistics. Just because she hasn’t LOVED science like her brother doesn’t mean she wouldn’t love geology or astronomy or another scientific discipline which isn’t a typical HS science topic.

How can I help?

4

You should look at schools with very strong foreign language programs as she will excel in those classes and will likely make her employable in sectors that can use her language skills. Have you looked at Middlebury? Our son really loved the school but was waitlisted. She could also study other areas such as economics, politics etc so she has options in banking, foreign service/government etc. I believe that they are generous with need-based aid so not sure if you can make that work financially.

5

I do not believe that Middlebury is a big merit school (if at all)

6

Wow she sounds like a fascinating student!

Somehow I would try to “marry” the language strength/interest with something practical. (??). Does she have any interest in computer science or cybersecurity?

I’m not as knowledgeable as some parents in this area because my kiddo was pretty focused on one thing, but just thought I’d throw that out there!

7

Has she looked at the state department programs? They want people interested in the languages they need and have internships and scholarships for those programs.

8

I’m wondering if a student with such an intrinsic curiosity and drive to learn would be likely headed to graduate school right after UG anyway. If that is true (and you know your daughter best) does it matter so much what her UG major is, as long as she goes to a strong program and maintains top grades. I think some types of graduate programs admit (and in some cases prefer) students who major in a classic LA field…I’m thinking business, law, and a host of other professional and advanced academic fields. She may just be the type to become a LAC professor herself (though I know it’s hard to find tenured employment these days…)

9

Unfortunately, we cannot afford schools like Middlebury. That sort of leads into my main concern for her.

The schools we can afford don’t offer significant course offerings in advanced Russian. We have eliminated schools that will not work with her through independent study. Some depts are amazing and are really willing to help her achieve her goals.

She will be entering in with enough gen ed credits and lower level language credit that she has the opportunity to add in another area of focus on top of her languages. At top schools, the ability to just focus on the languages is an option, but it really isn’t as clear of a choice at the schools where she is applying. (Russian is not offered as a major at most schools. It has limited her choices. We have no in-state options with enough Russian bc their highest level only takes students to intermediate-mid/high at graduation. She is currently working through B1 texts which roughly equates to an intermediate level.)

One option she does have if she wants to focus on just language is UKY. She can use scholarship $$ for 2 full years, one in Russia and one in France. She wasn’t sure if strictly focusing on language acquisition and was as good of a choice as perhaps semesters abroad in each and another degree in IB, IS/IR, or Econ. (2 full yrs abroad can make it harder to fulfill those other degree requirements.)

10

Thanks for replies. I am multitasking so I was working on my post intermittently while other people were posting.

We have done extensive research into critical language scholarships. They are focused on study abroad and not for UG studies.

Yes, she does possibly see herself going to grad school or she has considered working as an analyst. But, she is definitely a 17 yr old who doesn’t have all the answers. She is also very open to listening to what others have to say.

11

I’m serious here. For a top student like her, why not try to get into the most generous schools where she can pick fields of study with all financial needs covered?

12

I’ve started looking at schools here in the Northeast with some of the same parameters you have. My approach has been to look for close-ish schools to home with decent language departments (and at least a few drawing classes, which limited my approach more than you’d limit yours) and then see how the “best case” cost looks after best merit scholarships. SUNY-Binghamton has French and Russian studies and best-case is 26k annually. Lafayette has both Russian and French and best case COA is $24k annually. Mt. Holyoke both Russian and French with best case COA $14k. U Rochester both R & F and best case COA $15k. I’ll add U Rochester has a really flexible curriculum with only one required class (Freshman Writing). UVM both R & F and best case COA $25k. The following don’t have Russian but do have French with a low-ish COA: Bennington best-case COA is $7k annually. Clark best case COA is $0. Ursinus best case COA is $27k. The rest I’ve identified are over $30k annually. I know these COA’s are still perhaps too high, but they’re the lowest I’ve found. Best of luck to you.

ETA: I’m sorry I can’t address your question about choosing majors/careers. We’re kind of in the same boat with D19.

13

My sister went to middlebury, majoring in French and German. She transferred to Wisconsin after a year, mostly for financial reasons, but was very happy at the bigger school.

14

Have you looked at GWU? A student with your daughter’s profile would be eligible for a scholarship.

15

Marry a language with something quantitative (econ or maybe poli sci or even IR or business or public policy if they allow her to take a good number of quantitative classes).

Aren’t there some schools with flagship language programs?

16

Here are the Russian flagship schools:
https://thelanguageflagship.org/content/russian

Bryn Mawr gives both fin aid and merit money. Not sure enough.

17

In terms of future job prospects outside of academia, especially within government with NGOs, I suspect French and Russian are not languages that add a lot of value. There are many, many more people who learn French than are needed to deal with the handful of countries/regions that do business in French are are not, as a practical matter, full of fluent English speakers. With Russian, there is a large supply of native speakers.

Someone who loves learning languages and cultures might do well to focus on learning how to learn more obscure languages that drift in and out of strategic importance.

18

Finances are a serious limitation. She is the 5th of 8 children and one of her older brothers is autistic and will never be 100% independent. He lives “on his own” in his own apartment and works full-time at Goodwill, but we supplement his income a lot. Her budget is small even wither her taking out student loans and working. It is not large enough to fill in the gap between need-based aid and our expected family contribution. There is no way around that. She has to work within the parameters of the schools she can afford.

She is applying to a few top schools that offer a tiny handful of large scholarships, but statistically those are incredibly unrealistic options.

19

I think parents today are more involved in their children’s lives, and especially as homeschool parents we are used to being deeply involved in their educational choices, and it can be hard to let go.

But, I think your responsibilities here are to help her find a school with French and Russian because you know she wants these things, and and then to stay out of her way as she explores her other options once she gets there. We can’t map out career paths for our kids, nor should we.

Encourage her to work closely with her advisors and the college career placement office (for internships and career advising) and to take classes in a wide variety of areas, but she really should choose her own path.

It’s OK for her to not know her career path at age 17.

20

University of South Carolina? They give national merit scholarships that can be stacked and they appear to encourage Russian majors to double major in a STEM field.

http://artsandsciences.sc.edu/dllc/RUSS