After recent discussions on value of different degrees, very confused for our daughter. Any advice?

Thank you for all of the responses.

@sbjdorlo She is applying for a few. We are avoiding schools that require beyond a 3.2 GPA for renewal.

@proudterrier Thank you for those ideas.

@CCDD14 Thanks for that perspective.

Analyst is one job she has considered, but if not, I guess it all boils down to the crux of the question. Is a degree in a foreign lang combined with something like IB or IR really a worthless pursuit?

Analyst is not a career aspiration- it’s a stepping stone. And focusing on that first job out of a college- while recognizing that you need her to be self-supporting- is illogical.

No high school kid is going to understand the differences between working for the State Department in the diplomatic corps vs. working for the CIA in intelligence vs. working for a global bank on their anti-money laundering team vs. working for the FBI on a task force which tracks stolen art vs. working for the World Bank funding infrastructure projects in Africa. All of these are possible careers for a smart and hard-working kid who is good at foreign languages and intellectually curious.

You are cutting the bologna too thin if you think that the choice of college PLUS the choice of major is going to guarantee a career long term and forever. It won’t.

Your D may graduate and end up teaching literature at a prep school after college (which many “undecided” kids do because you typically don’t need a teaching certification) while she figures out her life. And that’s fine. She may graduate and get a job in the training program of a major hotel chain and do that for a few years while she decides if she wants to go to grad school. And that’s fine. She may graduate and decide she wants an MBA so she takes a job which she isn’t particularly excited about- but which will pay for b-school- and again- that’s not a bad life decision.

Don’t agonize over having all the pieces line up right now. First- because they won’t. And second- because the long term career your D ends up in may not even exist right now. She needs to find a college you guys can afford which offers SOME of what she’s looking for (like every other kid) and figure out the rest as she goes.

“International Business”- what does that mean to her? International Relations- what does that mean to her? If she’s interested in political theory, philosophy, how different economies move in relation to each other, how historical trends either continue or disrupt based on new technology or revolution or anarchy or some other disruption- then she’s well positioned for about two dozen careers. If she thinks she’s going to learn a set series of facts which will prepare her to jump into her dream job in July after college graduation then she should major in something else. IR is a terrific field for a kid who is prepared to take the combination of theory and empiricism and figure out how to apply it to new and different problems. It isn’t so great if a kid thinks that’s how to get their ticket punched for a glamorous career launching the next Uber or being feted at the World Economic Forum for their contributions to the global media industry.

I have a son who majored in French as an undergrad, studied in France for i term as an undergrad and a year after graduation, and did an internship at the State Department. He also took a year of Russian as an undergrad, but was unable to continue because of scheduling issues. He went to Dartmouth, which has a strong undergraduate economics program, as well as outstanding language departments and an unusually good study abroad program.

My first question is: why you are so firmly convinced that even with 8 children, including a special needs child, you would receive no need-based aid, even from the true deep-pockets schools? Have you run the NPC at Dartmouth, for example? My second question is: what are her test scores?

My third point is a comment, not a question: she sounds like a wonderful girl! :slight_smile:

College Board has a book called “Book of Majors” 2017, that would be very helpful for you and your daughter. It also lists schools that have that particular field of study.

@blossom I had her read your last paragraph, and she laughed at the final descriptor. That is definitely not her. She is more the first, but without a deep grasp of those ideas. She has studied them, but there is no mature understanding which is obviously perfectly normal at 17. Like I said, this is new territory for us. Our other kids have gone to college with careers in mind and then came out with those careers. Everything did sort of just fall in place for them. This child is nothing like them and has no desire to follow that path. I guess being more like her art history cousin who is now a top exec with nothing to do with any art related field is the way to think about things. (I should probably have her call her.)

@Consolation I have run NPCs for every top school that offers Russian. The main issue is that schools don’t care about the kids who have already graduated. I understand their reasoning, bc we do have a solid income, but our real world financial situation reflects raising 8 kids, not his income. (If we had all of them over 8 yrs instead of 21, that would have made for huge college savings. :wink: But our oldest started college in 2007 and our youngest won’t finish until this yr’s 1st graders graduate. Not much overlap.) We went through this 3 yr’s ago when her brother was a sr in high school. Top schools would not come down enough below our expected contribution to make them work. It is why he is at Bama (and he loves it there, so it has turned out OK.)

I don’t like publicly posting my kids’ test scores bc anyone who reads these forums and knows us IRL automatically knows who we are, and I want to respect their privacy. I have had people PM me or tell me that they read my post about____. Her scores are high enough to qualify for most automatic scholarships and meet the threshold for most, but not all, competitive scholarships. She should progress from NMSF to NMF.

And thank you. She is a pretty amazing young lady. She has managed to do everything she has on top of having been pretty ill in 10th and the first half of 11th. Thank goodness for modern medicine bc things are now under control and she back to old self.

Every time you talk about your family, I feel so inadequate! Such a cool family. No, it isn’t all clear how it will work out but it sure seems like it will. I know you want to help her on the path but it might be fun to just watch and see how it turns out because whatever it is, it is going to be interesting.

See if she can get at least a full-tuition scholarship at a LAC where all majors they offer would be open (unlike some unis where popular majors may be restricted or competitive).
No need to plan things out. Or even major in a language. I still believe that study-abroad is better for than.

I don’t think you should let other people’s fears change the path you’re on.

Blossom’s right that there will be myrad opportunities- not unlimited, because most of our kids have sets and directions of interests and skills. Not all will be big Silicon Valley level bucks. But at a young age, your girl has learned to identify interests (I rarely accept the word “passions,” but she may be a true case of identifying those.) She has pursued these at a high and challenging level and succeeded. There is so much in personal strengths that I do believe you can skip the worries about defining and parsing what’s “practical,” for now. As an individual, she has the assets she will refine, over the college years. And, I suspect, with your guidance, as a sounding board.

When she’s in college, has room for an elective, or has a requirement to fulfill, then you can advise her re: maybe she takes that econ class, a higher level of math, something involving CS, whatever. Or maybe something else. See what, besides languages, she enjoys, maybe wants to take more of. Then, not now. Encourage her to challenge herself, not just go with the easy choices. Time will bring her many ideas and options.

You know, I’ve always wondered about this – if you spend your assets down, does the next kid or the one after that qualify for more aid? I don’t trust the financial aid system to do that for two kids, let alone eight! It makes college planning much trickier. Maybe by the time the 1st grader is ready to go college you guys will be retired and your income will be low enough for him/her to qualify for aid without so many hoops?

But, back to the original topic: I’m not sure career books and lists are very helpful. They seem to be out-of-date very quickly. When you get your acceptances, look at the career centers of the places that accept her. How good is the alumni database for informational interviews? How good is the placement rate for internships? A liberal arts degree is much more valuable if you aren’t graduating with an empty resume.

If you file FAFSA/CSS for the oldest, and you have $50k in assets for college and $XXX in income, that’s what that child’s FA will be based on. If you get down to $3k in assets and only $X in income by kid #8, that’s what his FA will be based on.

It may work out for everyone, it may not.

Signed, a third child

I haven’t read the entire thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned, but why not an interdisciplinary major? My major consisted of core business courses (calc, accounting, and finance), lots of Econ, foreign language, international relations and poly sci courses. It was an interesting major and great for someone with varied interests. Before deciding on law school, I interviewed/received job offers from banks and the CIA. A friend with the same major who studied Japanese won a Rhodes scholarship, studied in Japan after graduation, and went on to get a MBA and have a very successful career. At my school, the major existed, but it could be designed if the school is flexible.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek there are 2 different programs with in the IB major at UofSC. I can’t remember the name, but the second one might be well suited for your DD. D and I sat in on a session at the business school and the honors college and both very informative.

@jeepgirl Thanks. Yes, that is the program Dd is interested in. I thought she had a good plan until I read those other 2 threads. But, after talking to her about it, she is still confident that she does. She will have a strong diverse background with her languages. She will forge her own path and find her interests as she goes along.

I apologize if this has already been stated.

Find a college with a variety of majors, and let your daughter figure this out. Many students arrive at college either as undeclared, or with a specific major in mind which the then change.

In my opinion, find a place where she can nurture her current interests and strengths, and at the same time explore other areas that might either pique her interest, or blend well,with her current interests.

She doesn’t need to have her entire life figured out before applying to college.

I feel that many people will understand this better if this is explained as:
this is a kid who as a high school student is reaching a level in foreign language which, if math, would be Real Analysis. And not in one, but in TWO languages, AND has reached the equivalent of Calc BC in a third.
So, the challenge is finding universities that offer full-tuition scholarships or higher, offer a pathway to graduate courses in two foreign languages, and are flexible with additional majors.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek : your child will easily complete her major; therefore, she’ll be able to choose another one, or a minor, or classes in her areas of interest or “practical” classes.
You may want to look at the places where exchanges take place. For France, you preferably want an “Ecole” rather than “université” - Sciences Po, IEP, ESSEC, INSA would be good examples. For Russia, you want Moscow State, St Petersburg State, MGIMO. Those would include mostly content classes rather than language classes, and would thus allow her to gain subject knowledge in her target languages.
From Russian, other Eastern European languages can be learned (Ukrainian would certainly be appreciated by our agencies.)

hi OP
your daughter sounds really cool…
No matter how many kids or what the scores are, if you have identified merit scholarships as a must, i believe you! I think that you can always fall back on a surprise financial aid award, should it happen. First, though, I agree that you have to identify the possibilities for those big scholarships. I know a student with similar language/international interests. This student took part in some federal language program and went overseas in high school. Student now attends American and really likes it! I don’t know about scores or scholarships, but i am guessing this student is taking advantage of American’s large merit scholarships…(pasted from their webpage):
“Freshman Merit Awards
The Admissions Committee makes all merit-based scholarship decisions and notifies students at the time they are admitted or shortly thereafter. Your admissions application is your application for a merit-based scholarship. No separate application is required for the following merit awards:
AU Presidential Scholarship
AU Deans’ Scholarship
AU Leadership Scholarship
Frederick Douglass Scholarship”

College first, then a career. Just make sure that the career conversation keeps going, but no need to settle on one now, I think

^seconding American. Lots of classes, language + other subject options, merit aid (Presidential in particular.)

If your daughter is enjoying Econ that is a great choice. A language is almost always required and with AP courses, she can probably minor in both languages if they are offered. If not, choose one to minor and try to do a study abroad in the country of the other language. Sounds like U-Kentucky is a very good option.

Could it possibly make sense to try to do Russia or France with a Rotary before going to college? IME the most efficient way to become fluent in a language is total immersion. Many study abroad programs don’t provide that - the students in them really are looking for an easy semester of fun. My son had that experience in two out of the three programs he did in Jordan. She doesn’t have to major in either French or Russian to take advanced courses. I’d advise her to try a broad range of courses as a freshman and see what she likes. Job or internship experiences in the summer are crucial to finding work after graduation - far more important than the exact name of the major.

She’d get a good merit scholarship at American.

Well, the DC colleges are a pretty amazing opportunity to be in the thick of things to do with govt, policy, even the intellectual vibe of the city and many of its people. Not to mention, the international aspects. It can also be a lot of fun, for college age kids.