After thoughts from first year engineering

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>I am in a first year electrical engineering program at the University of Toronto in Canada. After having just finished my first year I have a few comments. Well my first semester did not fare so well and I ended up with a very low average, but still passing. Mind you the school here does not care about GPA but about your overall average. </p>

<p>The second semester is yet to be determined but my feeling says that I royally bombed it. </p>

<p>I have made my share of mistakes and what not, and I definitley could have done things better. But here is the catch. </p>

<p>Entering the program I was a top caliber student. I received a faculty scholar ship and had one of the higher averages going into the program. My background is ofcourse public school. Now the issue I have is that even though I was a top caliber student I felt like crap here. </p>

<p>My peers just seemed to be able to handle things better. </p>

<p>Everyone says to succeed in engineering you have to work hard, study, don't be lazy and what not...and if you put your mind to it you can achieve. I am sorry to say people but this is complete bull crap. </p>

<p>I am in a program I entered by choice, and I thought I could do well in. I was forced to take alot of general first year courses, which really diminished my spirit, but what really killed me here, is the PEOPLE.</p>

<p>I would look at the courses I am doing and says to myself "There is no value in this". I would have to take civil engineering and mechanical engineering courses and I was a freeking electrical major. </p>

<p>The only courses I did so far that have any meaning, was the design courses which were poorly delivered, but my best grades never the less, and programming and EM and circuits, and the maths. </p>

<p>I didnt do so hot in any of these courses but I felt like I was atleast working towards my goal. </p>

<p>My peers on the other hand just did what they were told. Most had no social life, and were nerds, would stress out over tests and exams, and just refused the thought of extracurricular activities. </p>

<p>This bothers the crap out me. Most of the guys I am describing were top ten. But seriously, to be an 80's (they were top ten in the 80's), student you have to give up your life? That doesn't really seem to fit the description of an engineer. We are supposed to be multi-faceted individuals who do things other than differential equations. </p>

<p>If it happens that I have failed my second semester, I will give it another go. I will take a greater initative in doing my work for sure, and try to keep up, but I am not willing to become these people. They just seem so unhappy, or so one-dimensional. </p>

<p>Otherwise, if by some miracle I pass and move onto second year, any advice on time managment and how to become an effective engineering student, other than the standard, "do your work, keep up, read ahead, and yada yada yada". </p>

<p>See the thing is I agree that this is the way to succeed, but the challenge in engineering is how to reach this level without losing your insanity and ability to shower, and change clothing (I swear I knew a guy who wore the same sweater for three weeks straight in winter !@#$%). </p>

<p>So I guess what I am asking is what works for you because every one is different...</p>

2

<p>Some semesters suck nut.</p>

<p>You keep going and are eventually rewarded with those classes where everything is clear, the homework is interesting, and you actually enjoy the tests because they're a solid learning experience.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That doesn't really seem to fit the description of an engineer.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Umm....might have to disagree with you there. That's very much the stereotype of engineers.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
That doesn't really seem to fit the description of an engineer. We are supposed to be multi-faceted individuals who do things other than differential equations.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>On the contrary, this very much fits the description of an engineer, someone who is serious about his studies and working toward a professional career.</p>

4

<p>yea god forbid engineering be time consuming, how dare they</p>

5

<p>My first two years weren't that great either. I too was taking plenty of courses i wasn't particularly interested in, such as E&M, circuits, differential equations, etc. The classes that I really like didn't come until junior year, which was coincidentally enough when my GPA went through the roof.</p>

6

<p>yeah ee is tough and you'll often just be disappointed that you receive the grades that you do...</p>

<p>im finishing up my sophomore year, and first semester, i'll admit, i slacked off just a little and got <insert grades="" worse="" than="" expected=""> because i wasn't interested in the courses i was taking.</insert></p>

<p>second semester i was really interested in the coursework, and even the coursework i disliked i buckled down on and gave it my everything; to make a long story short, i don't think i did much better than <insert grades="" worse="" than="" expected=""> even though i worked harder than i have in my entire life.</insert></p>

<p>the point is, the sooner you learn to deal with the seemingly unfair hardships in engineering the better. as long as your interest doesn't die away, i see no reason to keep pursing the subject.</p>

7

<p>Well I never said I expected EE to be easy. And I agree that its the stereotype for an engineer to be a nerdy loser who studies all the time, but it doesnt have to be and shouldnt. I know plenty of normal people who got decent grades and graduated EE. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep going, hopefully finish my degree and if I want to do something else after I will see.</p>

8

<p>There seems to be a strong emphasis on engineers = nerds/losers in your posts.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
And I agree that its the stereotype for an engineer to be a nerdy loser who studies all the time, but it doesnt have to be and shouldnt.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>it shouldn't if you are a genius who can grasp concepts just by listening/reading it once and can do homework without getting stuck. But unfortunately from your description you belong to the "normal" intellectual group so you have to either suck it up and become one of those nerds to get good grades or just enjoy your college life and keep your "I'm better than these no life nerds" attitude towards your nerdy colleagues.</p>

10

<p>It gets harder. Maybe you're not cut out for it. Many schools have a >33% dropout rate for engineers for a reason.</p>

11

<p>I think the issue here is that you are trying to balance "life" and engineering. And the problem is that if you are pursuing engineering, and seek to do it successfully, you will never be able to reach that balance. I agree that "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy/girl/whatever" but you must realize that your "life" will be seriously limited with engineering. Something like 20% "life" and 80% work is possible but a 50/50 is damn near impossible. Trust me, I've tried... and failed.
On the other hand, you can choose to strike a balance more agreeable to you but your grades can and will suffer. I have also noticed that engineering tends to attract the best and the brightest... people who will automatically be setting the curves. To just be in the same league as these guys, a normal person pretty much has to do overtime. Heck, not only do you forgo a large chunk of "life" you even have to say goodbye to sleep many times. Endurance, perseverance, patience, resilience, and passion are what you need to get through... brilliance is a plus since no one really has a control over that!
However, if you are good at something other than engineering... be it being social or being good at writing poetry, try to devote some time to those but just remember that for the next few years engineering is your life.</p>

12

<p>I'm no engineer but after reading this thread I have to ask is the end result really worth all of this? I don't believe I have heard that the work of an engineer (after graduation) is that much better than a business or many other majors so I am beginning to wonder why put up with all of this for 3 or 4 years ?</p>

13

<p>JBen:
If this is how someone feels about engineering they don't do it for four years I would imagine... either they fail or they drop out (I'd guess). That goes back to the high percentage of undergrad engineering majors that drop the major (>30%?). </p>

<p>That said, I think the OP has exaggerated the effort. I go to a school of only engineers, so I can't say I can compare how much time is spent working in engineering as opposed to other majors, but I almost like it. Sure it gets tiring, it's hard, but personally I enjoy the challenge. I'm an Engineering Physics major, so perhaps I am more physics than engineering, but as I finish my 2nd year I have done all the math, I've taken the lower level engineering classes (including the one that I hear at my school a lot of people ignore trying to do well in, they just want to finish... the sophomore glimpse into later courses maybe), and I've maintained a 3.5. At times I've struggled, but there are also pretty relaxed times. I have time for a sport and club, time to drink, time to just hang out... </p>

<p>It's just about knowing when to buckle down and doing it when that time comes. If you let assignments or studying for tests start to slip it all crashes down quite fast, and as you play catchup on some things you get behind on other, etc.</p>

<p>"Everyone says to succeed in engineering you have to work hard, study, don't be lazy and what not...and if you put your mind to it you can achieve. I am sorry to say people but this is complete bull crap." I have to say I disagree. Unlike the OP I was a 3.5 student in highschool, moderate test scores... maybe top 25%... not a "top caliber student". One of my friends was 2nd in his class. Another friend was top in her class and did much better on the standardized tests then I did. He is on the edge of 2.5 I think, she is at ~3.3. What's the only difference I can see between the three? I study more than both, and I pay attention and go to class more than one.</p>

<p>Do engineering if you like it, if you like the challenge, you like the math, you like the physics, you like the concepts... whatever it is. Do it because you like it for SOMETHING other than the salary or something like that.</p>

14

<p>Don't worry about grades, just give it a concerted and real effort and do your best. If you fail out, you fail out... go try something else. There's no shame in finding out what you're good at in college.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
I'm no engineer but after reading this thread I have to ask is the end result really worth all of this? I don't believe I have heard that the work of an engineer (after graduation) is that much better than a business or many other majors so I am beginning to wonder why put up with all of this for 3 or 4 years ?

[/quote]
Far better career potential than most others.</p>

16

<p>Is it really Payne? Could you please elaborate?</p>

17

<p>Highest average starting salary; highest average salary (ie: not starting salary) when compared to virtually any other undergraduate major. Better experience for future graduate work (MBA admissions, etc).</p>

18

<p>50/50 balance is possible. You just have to plan your time well.</p>

<p>When courses require that you work long hours on a problem set, put in the required long hours. On the other hand, if you want to set aside time for an extracurricular like art or music or something, you do that, and you make it your extracurricular time, and keep engineering out of it. Just have to set boundaries. As JohnWilkins mentioned, it's all about knowing when you have to buckle down and do the work that you need to do... I'm not sure that the OP has hit his stride in terms of figuring out how to balance work and life yet, from what he's stated. It took me a couple of semesters to work it out for myself.</p>

<p>I think it's got great career potential. I'm working long hours now, but I'm designing some ridiculously cool things, and I'm pretty fairly compensated for what I do. I'll never be a millionaire, but that's not really what I set out to be in the first place.</p>

19

<p>Seems as if you don't study enough, engineering certainly isn't the major for slacking.
What classes are you having problems with specifically?</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
I would look at the courses I am doing and says to myself "There is no value in this". I would have to take civil engineering and mechanical engineering courses and I was a freeking electrical major.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your program of study, EE, is accredited by the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board. In order to obtain this "stamp of approval" the university's EE department is required to meet the requirements of CEAB. which means that you will be required to meet standards that include a breadth of engineering (civil, mechanical, etc.) in addition to math, physics and chemistry.</p>

<p>You may not realize it now, but as an engineer you will have to interact with other engineering disciplines either within your employer's company or with your company's clients. Some professors realize that their entry level courses are taken by students from other departments, as well as by students in their department, and they make the course interesting by including real world applications (a very good reason to attend classes!). If your professors do not include example applications, ask them to make the class more meaningful...you are paying for the class. </p>

<p>One other point is that if you go on to take a PhD you will find that the same differential equations are used as the starting point to derive the equations you study as an undergrad in different courses of study. For example, water flow through an earthen dam can be simulated with an inexpensive electrical model.</p>

<p>I didn't particularly care for the EE classes I had to take, but I had good professors and small classes. I did my own independent reading to learn why transistors and op-amps were useful and what they replaced. During labs I continually experimented with the circuits we were to complete to understand the limitations of the circuit and the measuring equipment, for example. I asked myself, "where were errors introduced?"</p>

<p>I did obtain a greater understanding of circuits than most of the students in my engineering mechanics department and that paid off during my first year of grad school. We were using sensors and electronics in a large NSF project and no other grad student was interested in trouble shooting that aspect of the study. I volunteered and within a semester, I was invaluable to the research study. I was given full funding through each summer, in addition to the academic year. So my extra effort in a subject that most of my undergrad peers just took to get it over with, paid handsomely. Years later I became head of a department that was all EE's and computer engineers since I had the knowledge to guide the EE's in the development of instrumentation and sensors to measure physical events under extreme conditions. I certainly did not envision this way back when I was taking the introductory circuits course.</p>

<p>While I could discuss "nerdy" subjects with fellow engineering students, I also took classes in economics, philosophy, psychology and history. I dated women throughout my undergraduate and graduate years and had quite a few friends studying liberal arts while an undergrad, and law, medicine and social sciences, etc., during my graduate years. I also played squash quite a bit with professors and students from many different departments. In addition to working hard I also partied hard (I would drink but I rarely got drunk...during my first freshman semester I learned that consequences of drinking to excess outweighed the benefits of the temporary high).</p>

<p>An undergraduate engineering program is demanding, but studying to understand the courses required in the first two years will pay off in the future. It is difficult to see how taking a course in fluid dynamics, for example, will help you in the future, but there are concepts taught in the course that you will benefit from in future courses or during your career. That is why the accreditation board requires your department to develop a curriculum that meets their standards.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>