<p>I wasn’t offended M2CK 
Being new to college confidential, I had not read enough before my first post. Since ACT/SAT scores along with GPA have merit in determining who has a higher probability of successful college completion. My other post gives my view of in-state and OOS engineering scholarships. Since Honors College requires a 28, there must be some merit that students that attain a 28 or higher ACT have a high probability of college success. I believe the engineering dept should sort of follow the spirit of the overall scholarship trend (requiring 2 higher ACT points for OOS students).</p>
<p>The College of Eng’g has a very targeted goal…and that is to populate the new 900,000 sq ft Science and Eng’g Complex with enough high stats students to better ensure that enough make it thru the whole 4 year. </p>
<p>I believe the engineering dept should sort of follow the spirit of the overall scholarship trend (requiring 2 higher ACT points for OOS students).</p>
<p>But doing so won’t fulfil the CoE’s goal…
The CoE likely has done some analysis and has determined that those with an ACT 30+ have the highest chance of making it thru all the math, physics, and so forth (assuming that the student likes eng’g). If supplementing the OOS students with an ACT 30/31 to full tuition gets more of those students into the program, then I can see why they’re doing it. </p>
<p>The CoE’s goal isn’t just to get warm bodies into their program. Their goal is to get high stats students into the program. </p>
<p>I don’t think any of the other depts are expected to follow the univ policy for merit. There are other depts who don’t require OOS students to have higher scores in order to get their scholarships.</p>
<p>…and who knows, at any time, the univ could eliminate its req’t that OOS students need 2 pts more.</p>
<p>The other thing we dont know (and probably never will) is what kind of stipulations the donors put on the $$ for the additional COE scholarships. DS is an OOS highstats kid who is getting the some of the additional $$. Every year he gets a letter from the COE reminding him that they need a Thank You letter for the $$ to send to donors.</p>
<p>It is very possible that the funds supplied by the donors require a 30+ score, if so the COE would not have much latitude to make changes for in-state kids without going back to every donor to get approval to make the chage. (Dont know anything here, just speculation)</p>
<p>Then there is Virginia - where the state legislature is looking at limiting OOS to 25% because there are so many high-stat students that don’t get spots in their state school of choice (UVA, W&M, VT). We live in Northern VA where the high schools are very good and very competitive. Every year, there are stories in the paper about some 4.3 GPA students that get rejected by the “elite” VA schools. And don’t even try to ask for scholarship (non-need based) money! My DS is applying to a couple of in-state schools - but is under no illusion that he’s a guaranteed admit. On the other hand, Bama has been courting him like a Div. 1 football player. The VA state universities are in the tough position of needing the OOS full pay dollars to meet budget, but also needing to satisfy the in-state demands. I can say that we appreciate the “open arms” approach of UA (even if DS hasn’t made up his mind that it’s right for him)!</p>
<p>“The other thing we dont know (and probably never will) is what kind of stipulations the donors put on the $$ for the additional COE scholarships. DS is an OOS highstats kid who is getting the some of the additional $$. Every year he gets a letter from the COE reminding him that they need a Thank You letter for the $$ to send to donors.”</p>
<p>This is an EXCELLENT point. The sources for those eng’g funds are likely putting parameters on who can have those awards. If I were a donating company wanting to help produce more engineers, I certainly would want the money targetted to bringing more high stats kids into eng’g. </p>
<p>When you consider WHY eng’g supplements the ACT 30-31 students. It’s very likely that research has shown that those students are just as successful as the ACT 32+ kids…so help more of those kids come into the program. </p>
<p>The idea that the 1/3 tuition scholarships that are awarded to those OOS students should instead go to lower scoring instate students just won’t achieve the goals. Yes, it would be nice for the recipients, but not so for the CoE’s goals.</p>
<p>"This is an EXCELLENT point. The sources for those eng’g funds are likely putting parameters on who can have those awards. If I were a donating company wanting to help produce more engineers, I certainly would want the money targetted to bringing more high stats kids into eng’g. "
Here I think you are hitting it. The UA and other state universities exist to educate the populace and to benefit the state as a whole. Alabama’s growing industry needs more engineers. There is the hope that some of these UA educated engineers (as well as non engineers) will choose to stay in the state after graduating thus supporting the continued economic growth of the state.</p>
<p>I don’t think Alabama can provide enough students with high ACT/GPA scores and needs to go OOS to improve their program. It will be hard to get the big companies to recruit at Alabama until they can give them a good reason to come there.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>The state just doesn’t have the population and it has many public univs…not sure how many have eng’g, but at least several do. With the big 4 public univs (Bama, UaH, UaB, and Auburn) competing for top students (as well as the other public and private univs) there aren’t enough instate students.</p>
<p>My family and I recently toured the UA campus, and we were impressed by numerous things including the Shelby Engineering Building . On our bus there were about 20 high school seniors, of which 19 were from out of state. My son, and I would think the other 18 OOS students on the bus, are very thankful for the generosity being offered by the UA through these merit scholarships.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Yes, but you’d also be surprised to learn that a number of those students are likely full-payers. Most OOS students at Bama are not getting the big merit.</p>
<p>mom, you gotta stop staying at all night then coming home to post on the board! haha</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>ha ha…up wrapping gifts. I don’t think many moms are getting to bed at decent hours these days. </p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. In the great state of California, University of California at Davis has been recruiting foreighn students who pay considerably higher tuition than USA or California residents. This has helped to fund growth for that particular campus.</p>
<p>^^^
Isn’t the tuition the same for USA (oos) students and int’l students? They both are charged $37k for tuition.</p>
<p>For the UCs, it’s really not likely going to be a hot issue because their instate numbers are so high. For Davis, the instate percentage is 97%</p>
<p>D was looking at UCLA. When she heard the OOS extra fee at the local info session she passed out. For OOS it is an extra $22K per year.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Yes, it is. and, it’s the same for int’l kids. They both get charged the same high rate.</p>
<p>I realize that the money for merit scholarships for in-state and out-of-state students comes from profits from football, not from state revenues. But who pays for the expansion of seats at UA? Why should a state university system increase seats if it can’t fill a substantial portion of them with in-state students?</p>
<p>OK, for the sake of argument, let’s say not a single Alabama citizen went to UA (obviously not the case). Even then, UA would be providing incredibly bright workers to Alabama’s economy. Educating state students isn’t the sole goal of a college.</p>
<ol>
<li>How many of these out-of-state students will stay in Alabama?</li>
<li>Education may not be the sole goal of a college but surely it’s the main goal!</li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li>I’m not sure, but I would assume that students like to stay in the area where their degree has the most placing power.</li>
<li>I’m saying that the goal of a university should not be to educate IN-STATE students, but to educate students regardless of their residency. Yale provides New Haven with a great benefit, even if few New Haven students attend.</li>
</ol>