<p>Why do I feel like I'm in Oz?
First I was called out for talking in generalities- that we should be sticking to the topic- Al III. Then when the discussion goes back to Al, I'm told since I don't know all the particulars, I shouldn't opine. OK, fair, but I guess between those two points, this thread is dead, right? Shouldn't talk about Al, shouldn't talk in generalities.</p>
<p>I don't know collegealum...ldgirl hung out with the 'smart, but cool' crowd and the most brilliant one of them (now at an extremely prestigious Ivy I will not name) was, and is, the biggest stoner. He isn't rich, connected, legacy, urm, geographically diverse....he is just fantastically talented and got in on his merits. Is he also undeserving? I guess my point is...you just can't make assumptions about this stuff.</p>
<p>This book I just read says Al Gore's son is not brilliant</p>
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Golden backs his assertions with examples comparing the academic records of entering students: e.g., Al Gore's son was admitted to Harvard despite his shabby record, although a better prepared Asian-American was rejected at all Ivy Leagues because he was "unhooked" (in admission parlance, not well connected or moneyed).
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</p>
<p>I went to private university and I loved the diversity--of all kinds--racial, nationality, geography, interests. Diversity was one of the highlights of my experience in fact. I had no idea some fathers bought their daughters red Mercs and Louis Vuitton steamer trunks. The idea that some students owuld arrive on their parent's lear jet? I never would have believed it.</p>
<p>We didn't have MTV's Sweet Sixteen back then. When my friend from Nicaraugua told me the reason he left his country was because he didn't want to go to Yale--I had a few minutes of private confusion before I realized he said JAIL not Yale. The long haired blond guys from Aruba were the perenniel afternoon delight as they played frisbee on the quads. The Saudi and the Venezualan guys had a whole different take on their careers. The Latin women...were so sexy!! My mohter told me not to wear tight clothes but I learned differently by sitting in class with girls from Puerto Rico who wore hip hugging pants that made them look stunning. </p>
<p>One of my best friends was a full ride student form Chicago. Another became a full ride student when her father left the family stranded in Long Island. One was in the middle of a family of 13 kids. Another was a swimmer from Texas who barely had time for parties.</p>
<p>We had a great time together and we learned a ton from listening to one another's stories. If my sons meet a fraction of the humanity that I met at uni, it will have been well worth the time and money. Meeting the son of a vice-president and environmental activist? The borther of a young campaign manager and published author? One who survived a serious head injury and brush with death? Maybe I like ficiton too much but on the surface, that kid sounds like he could tell me thing or two I didn't know before. Maybe he's a big stoner with nothing to offer. I couldn't say for sure--but on paper? He sounds like a good story teller.</p>
<p>Heck that's one of the best things about living in a big city like Manhattan--the diverse stories.</p>
<p>Bring 'em on.</p>
<p>ldmom, if your daughter's friend is brilliant, then he deserves to be where he is.</p>
<p>And a lot of this probably goes back to haves and have nots. If someone got the golden ticket themselves, they probably could care less about this issue. If someone got the shaft, they're not going to think it's such a great system.</p>
<p>no no dp - I didn't say I minded YOU speaking in general terms. I was merely responding to you chastising (perhaps too harsh a word?) me for speaking specifically about Al Gore III in my first post. You did tell me I was 'off' the evolved topic right?</p>
<p>You are most welcome to opine...that's what we are all here for! :)</p>
<h2>"ldmom, if your daughter's friend is brilliant, then he deserves to be where he is."</h2>
<p>I think so too dp...but some here would say not...that his less than perfect behaviour would preclude him from claiming the prize of an Ivy League gold ticket.</p>
<p>Guess it also depends on whether he got caught! :eek:</p>
<p>We're talking about the great storm here- someone who has lackluster academic record PLUS a bad character/behavioral/police record.</p>
<p>Didn't he claim to invent the internet also? Among his other accomplishments.</p>
<p>cheers-
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You don't really want to read all of that, jymmie.
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hahahaha. I am guessing it is longer than the latest Harry Potter book!!</p>
<p>How many of us remember the kids that didn't really blossom and come into their own and show their full potential until college? Maybe perhaps some of use were those very students. Fortunately, the admissions counselors can look beyond a piece of paper with test scores and grades on it to see the potential in many kids, for many reasons. How can any of us here pass judgement and say that one type of student is more deserving than another, when we do not have all the facts in any given case? And coming back to the topic at hand (if that is allowed).. AGIII is lucky to be alive. As I said, he had a traumatic brain injury as a kid and almost died, and while he had likely suffered unfortunate consequences from his injuries that may have affected his academic prowess, and most likely affected his impulse control, lighten up on the kid and give him a break. It feels like.. what's that TV show where they picked on the kid in the wheelchair?? I forget- but I remember how distasteful that was.</p>
<p>I can understand that dp...but how can anyone truly look at a rejection from an Ivy League school as 'the shaft'. No one, not even a legacy, is a lock at any Ivy...and there should be no expectation or feeling of entitlement about a place in the entering class at any such competitive schools. My child was declined by two Ivy's and we never looked at it as though someone less deserving 'took her spot' from her. We just viewed it as they had too many 1500 SAT females from Texas with humanities and cheerleading awards....lol! Que Sera.</p>
<p>The shaft- I was just using a descriptor. But IMO, the most destructive thing to do to someone who has suffered disappointment, is to not be honest about what's really going on. It's hard to convince a kid who has 1500+ SATs, with a resume to die for and awesome academic record, that the kid with the 1200, a police record, and a rich dad had something they didn't (besides the rich dad). It's hard to believe, and it probably isn't true.</p>
<p>Do I know that Al III did not have hidden assets? No. Do I know that there are people with 1200s and police records that get in because of their daddy? Yes. That's really what I'm talking about.</p>
<p>in response to ldmom: There are people more impressive than that who don't get in. I know a guy who was musically talented enough to play in a professional orchestra, had nearly perfect stats and scores, was ranked in the top 100 in math and physics according to USAMO + USAPhO scores, was on the national championship ARML team (math,) and had plenty of other activities (sports, etc., although no hooks.) </p>
<p>This guy was basically a genius.</p>
<p>He was rejected at Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford and ended up going to a state university.</p>
<p>But the deal is dp...even if you got rid of all the 'daddy' admits, there wouldn't be enough places for every qualified candidate. You still have to make a cut somewhere and turn away perfect candidates who worked hard enough to deserve a spot. What then do you say to those disappointed students? </p>
<p>I've seen this debate so many times here on CC and it goes in circles. Legacy and developmental admits do bring something unique to the table: money and influence. It isn't as pretty a package as a gold medal in fencing or a top math award, but it is something necessary and desirable to these institutions.</p>
<p>
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Do I know that there are people with 1200s and police records that get in because of their daddy?
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Yup-- He is now president of the US of A, as many have said before.</p>
<p>I, too, believe that there is still a bit of a good ol' boys club and a "secret society" in many organizations, especially the old prestigious colleges and Unis. Should a kid not be considered for admission because he/she has a learning disability, or emotional issues, or a medical condition? Clearly we should not discriminate against others. As marite and others have so eloquently said, college is a business. If schools dont want to go the way of one of the Antioch campuses, they need to plan ahead for funding sources- to include anticipated donations from wealthy families. It is good business.</p>
<p>And ldmom- thanks for asking about my conference. It was long and exhausting (it was actually a board retreat). I chatted with 2 colleagues who happen to be on faculty at a local, very good private U, and mentioned that it was one of the schools my younger s is considering. They commented that faculty kids are an automatic free admit. It didn't sound like thay had to be "qualified" (though I find that a little hard to believe, and I am sure their kids are bright)-- However- it is apparently a faculty perk. Automatic free attendance for offspring. I wonder if it is too late to get a faculty position?! :)</p>
<p>in response to ldmom, I'd say normal alum donate enough money on their own. It still hasn't come out how many schools actually have development admits.</p>
<p>CalTech is a thriving research university. So is MIT. Neither of them has any preference for alumni let alone have development admits.</p>
<p>Sounds good to me jym....I'd get that application in!!</p>
<p>Sigh... ldmom-- I seem to remember that they changed the rules a few yrs back-- you have to have worked there for a certain # of yrs before you get that perk. Won't work. I guess it goes back to a poster's comment above about indentured servitude.</p>
<p>Nevermind the free admit--many schools give staff full or half discount. Many private Unis and LACs give assoc professors and up-- half discounts on their tuition. A professor at WUSTL gets half tuition at WUSTL and either 50% or 25% off at LACs as diverse as Allegheny and Haverford.</p>
<p>Stick that perk in your pipe and smoke it! ;)</p>
<p>Every private primary school, secondary school, college and university with a Development office has development admits, collegial. Bar none.</p>
<p><a href="http://giving.mit.edu/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://giving.mit.edu/index.html</a> </p>
<p><a href="http://giving.caltech.edu/ways_giving/%5B/url%5D">http://giving.caltech.edu/ways_giving/</a></p>
<p>The developmental admits at Caltech would have to be able to do the work--but family money makes a difference in the ability to get a place. Heck, MIT just fired their admit director--and she ws the queen of saying she liked to admit 'normal' kids to that bastion of 'research'. Very funny. If you want 100% merit admits, you have to move to China or Europe or Japan.</p>
<p>"....indentured servitude...."</p>
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<p>oh hey...that's what my husband is doing to pay for college expenses.</p>