<p>Oh OK - "Kids are Kids and these strudents are still just kids"</p>
<p>Give me a break with this statement! Aren't these the same kids who demand that they get treated as adults because they are 18 years old or older?! You can't have it both ways. That statement is such a cop-out.</p>
<p>You"re Right
But Theyre Not Treated As Adults At Eighteen Because They Dont Have The Right To Purchase And Consume Alcohol
So Which Is It?
Are They Adults Or Are They Kids?
One Or The Other
Frankly I Would Rather See The Drinking Age At Eighteen
That Would Clear Up A Lot
Would It Not?
Look I Just Think Its Too Punitive For A Nineteen Or Twenty Year Old College Student To Get Arrested For Drinking Beer
That Is Not Going On On Other Campuses
But I Do Agree You Cant Have It Both Ways
They Should Either Be Treated As Kids Or As Adults</p>
<p>Sabrina -</p>
<p>How can you make such a bold and general statement that arrests for underage drinking are not made on any other campuses?
And why is the definition of an adult always related in some way to the purchase and consumption of alcohol?
And no, lowering the drinking age to 18 years old would not "clear up a lot" of things! It would only result in even more high schoolers and younger kids to start drinking because it would be more available to them.
And it is not a question of whether the students are treated as adults or as kids - It is more a question of whether the student chooses to act as an adult or a child.</p>
<p>Do You Know Of Other Campuses Where Arrests Are Made For Underage Drinking?
Please Educate Me
The Definition Of An Adult Is Not Contingent Upon The Purchase And Consumption Of Alcohol But It Isthe Topic Of This Forum
As A Matter Of Fact You Brought The Issue Up
News For You: High Schoolers And Younger Kids Already Do Drink
But Because Of The Drinking Age As It Is I Believe They Binge Drink In Secret
As For Choosing To Be A Kid Or An Adult
Maybe That Comes With Experiencing Both Natural Maturation
Common Sense Would Dictate That One Would Choose To Be Treated As What Would Then Suit Their Needs And Desires
Even Small Children Like Being Treated Like Grown Ups
What We Want To Be "treated As" Vs Whatwe Are Are Two Different Issues</p>
<p>Fact Is>>>other States And Camouses Are Seeing The Problems Occurring With The Present Drinking Age
I Believe That They Are Wise In Wanting To Lower It To Eighteen
I Honestly Believe That It May Results In Some Bingeing Initially But It Will Work Itself Out In A More Natural Way
As Things Are Now There Is Too Much Secretive Stealth Bingeing
And It Seems To Become A Means Of Existence Fostering A Pattern Of Behavior
Aka Partying At Notre Dame</p>
<p>First of all, Heycow, I am not annoyed by the police doing their job. Just a curious parent as to why it has maybe not be done up until now. You are definately misinterpreting my posts. I also suggest that you read the newspaper which has revealed quite a lot to us as parents about the South Bend community; good and bad. I am a parent, quite concerned about the situation!</p>
<p>Sabrina -</p>
<p>You are a student - I am a mom of 7 children so there is no need to "enlighten" me that high schoolers and younger kids drink. I stated that MORE of these underage kids would begin to drink if the drinking age was lowered. My beliefs are based on the fact that I am a mother. You are a student so there is no point in debating this issue with you as your mentality is that of a student - and that in no way is meant as a negative but it just demonstrates the range of difference in our beliefs on this subject due to our present day status.
The campuses that desire a lowering of the drinking age don't want the responsibilities and problems of underage drinking in their colleges. The students who drank in high school are still very active in "binge" drinking while at college so the binge drinking reasoning doesn't hold much ground in this argument.</p>
<p>Heycow You Are Wrong
I Never Had A Drink Before I Went To College The Same Is True Of Manyof My Friends
The Bingeing Culture Is Alive And Well And Much Has To Do With The Necessity To Be Secretive
I Also Find It Somewhat Ironic How You Dont Want To Debate Me Because I Am A Mere Kid
Yet I Want To Be Treated Like An Adult
Yet Because I Am A Kid I Cant Buy Or Consume Alcohol
Yet I Am Arrested Like An Adult
Yet>>>>
I Dont Get It
I Respect You For Raising Seven Children And I Am Sure That You Are A Devoted And Wonderful Parent
My Parents Raised Almost As Many And We Are All Obedient And Compliant
But We All Indulged In Some Fun In College
Maybe Thats What I Really Want To Say
We All Know That We Soon Have To Really Grow Up In A Few Short Years We Are Part Of The Workforce< Maybe Married And Raising Families
We Have These Few Short Years To Do Some Goofy Things And Get Some Stuff Out Of Our Systems Hopefully Ina Safe Environment (without The Fear Of Being Arrested) Heycow< We Are Not Doing Drugs Or Hurting Others< Simply Having Some Beers And Having Some Laughs
Somehow This All Seems So Punitive
I Do Respect You Though
You Seem Very Caring And Thoughtful</p>
<p>notredame al -</p>
<p>I asked you to give me some info and stats on the crime that you previously mentioned - you tell me to read the newspaper. You state you are concerned about the situation but all of your posts seem to question the current South Bend police involvement with the ND underage drinking problem. Just trying to understand...</p>
<p>sabrina -</p>
<p>Truce.</p>
<p>I respect your last post. </p>
<p>Good Luck in college!</p>
<p>Heycow Same Here</p>
<p>You Seem Like A Great Parent</p>
<p>I Wish You Wrer An Administrator With The School!</p>
<p>Must Go Oregon St Is Beating Usc </p>
<p>We Have A Chance (and A Prayer!)</p>
<p>For Sabrina,</p>
<p>"Penn State fourth in nation in alcohol arrestsThursday, May 27, 2004
University Park, Pa. -- Penn State, with more than 700 alcohol-related arrests in 2002, ranked fourth in the nation that year for the number of such arrests, according to an analysis in the May 28 issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education, found at The</a> Chronicle of Higher Education</p>
<p>The University of Wisconsin at Madison, Indiana University at Bloomington and Western Michigan University ranked one, two and three in the nation for alcohol-related arrests that year.</p>
<p>The Penn State figures were for just the University Park campus.</p>
<p>Alcohol arrests on college campuses increased for the 11th year in a row according to the Chronicle, which developed its rankings from data reported by 6,327 two-year and four-year colleges to the U.S. Education Department."</p>
<p>Surely you didn't really think that Notre Dame is alone in the effort to combat underage drinking?</p>
<p>consumption of alcohol is not inherently immoral, or "illegal" in the sense of violationg natural law; assault is. That is why it is irritating to many people if SBPD are targeting the violation of what might be considered merely regulations or what are considered purely penal laws, ethically speaking.
And heycow, presuming to know what would happen to tens of millions of teens were the drinking age lowered smacks of arrogance, especially when droves of well-educated people very aware of the issue think better(look up the amethyst initiative). Also, you speak of whether the student chooses to act as an adult or a child--when he is not even given that choice because it has been made for him by "people who know better" it is pretty difficult. It is exactly this false sense of superiority which causes tension between older and younger adults. College students are clearly adults by multiple standards of measure. Prosecution of drinking should not be age-based in this case, but rather behavior based, as we all know of many "adults" who act like complete morons when they drink, yet it is seen as their prerogative and ignored because they have reached this arbitrarily mythical barrier of 21.</p>
<p>Heycow, for statistics on the ND campus you may check out ndsp.nd.edu. That would be the Notre Dame Police. As for South Bend, I would imagine you can google South Bend Police Dept; maybe they have a web site. I hope that you can at least understand that as a parent I certainly do not want the police to be hyper-focused on alcohol arrests. There is far more crime in South Bend than what ND students may or may not create. My concern is where have the police been up until now; and if they are going to begin cracking down on alcohol and underage drinking, then I expect as a citizen that they would also be making just as huge a crackdown on other crime. Again, I am not annoyed, but want the protection there covering ALL bases. My impression right now is that they seem to be too focused on the alcohol issue at hand, one that has obviously been occurring for some time. What about the protection due my student for the past two years? We have seen little or nothing done with regard to this issue up to this point. And thank goodness he does not live off-campus or even leave campus very often. I can't tell you the number of times I have reminded him as a parent when he has had to leave campus about the surrounding area and the crime that could occur. I just don't feel that once he leaves campus there is the strong presence of police protection. No, I am not placing assault ahead of illegal alcohol issues, either. As I said, crime is crime. I just happen to find it rather interesting that all of a sudden this crackdown is happening. Am I glad to see it happening, yes--it does offer me some assurance that a police presence exists. I just hope that we also begin to start hearing about the arrests for assaults, robberies ,etc. in the same way that we are hearing about the raids regarding illegal alcohol. And by the way, our son has 10 months to go before he is 21. Will I be relieved that he is of legal drinking age? No--I will continue to worry about him and others including those over the age of 21 who can consume alcohol legally. I do not want to debate the issues of lowering the drinking age--I just want assurances of police protection. I see the assurance two years later regarding illegal alcohol. How about seeing some assurances about the rest of the crime in the area?</p>
<p>BPK -</p>
<p>Call me arrogant - I don't care. A public statement signed by higher education leaders is not going to change my beliefs on the lowering of the drinking age - Is the Amethyst Initiative suppose to change my mind? No. I disagree with their statement and my beliefs are based on my own personal experiences, experiences in my community, situations that have occured in the high school and many other high schools, various college incidences and experiences that have hit too close to home. It is these actual experiences and stories that I have used in forming my opinion on this matter. So I can't "presume to know what may happen to tens of millions of teens" were the drinking age lowered but I am supposed to listen to the creators of the Amethyst Initiative because you have described them as "droves of well-educated people who are very aware of the issue"?? I am a well-educated person who disagrees with the initiative so that makes me arrogant? So be it. I do not believe that the drinking age should be lowered. That is my opinion. You have your opinion. So be it.</p>
<p>BPK,
The number of drunk driving deaths among young people has plummeted since all states raised their drinking age to 21.</p>
<p>Good Point Claremarie
Dwi Is A Whole Other Issue From My Persective There Is Simply No Excuse And I Believe That Offenders Should Be Prosecuted To The Fullest Extent Of The Law
What I Speak Of Is Life On The College Campus You Put It Very Well Bpk College Studnets Are Given No Choice In The Way They Are Treated
I Am All For Rules And I Believe There Should Be Consequences For Bad Behavior
But So Many Of These "arrests" Both On And Off Campus Are Not Made For Bad Behavior They Are Made For Consumption Of Alcohol
Students Being Arrested At Football Games And Being Breatholized? Why? Was Is Because Of Disruptive Behavior Or Was It Because They Were Targeted?
Furthermore I Might Agree With Some On A Number Of Things But I Still Believe That Punishment Or Consequences Are Excessive And Unreasonable
South Bend Police Arresting Students At Notre Dame Football Games? It Seems As Though There Is A More Worthy Cause For Police Focus</p>
<p>Sabrina - Sorry, minor point: if you explained somewhere why you capitalize every word in your posts, I have missed it. I find it distracting and, as a result, it is difficult for me to read your posts in their entirety. Just so you know.</p>
<p>The number of car-related deaths have skyrocketed since the invention of the car.</p>
<p>Let's just get rid of cars. They're dangerous.</p>