<p>Just wondering what it's like on other campuses. My D is fed up with the amount of drinking and permissiveness at her college (she's a sophomore). Students can drink openly, in large groups without bothering to hide their bottles. She knows of at least two incidents where friends of hers were threatened, harassed, or actually hit by drunk male students. One of these incidents involved a male student who slapped her friend, in front of my D and other witnesses (all his friends). When my D and her friend reported it, it was dropped because all the boys denied that he had hit the girl, and my D did not actually see it (she had her back turned), although she heard the sound and saw the red mark on the girl's face immediately after. (The security officer saw the red mark as well.)</p>
<p>My D believes the administration is actively looking the other way and it is fostering an unhealthy permissive atmosphere. It does sound that way. This college is a small progressive LAC and has a small frat scene so this comes as a bit of a surprise. </p>
<p>I think the true policy at many colleges is to turn a blind eye to underage drinking. It’s everywhere. I would be a lot more concerned about the college refusing to take a report of violence against a female student seriously. Forget the fact the boys were intoxicated, I would write the Dean and ask for an explanation of why this man was allowed to physically hurt a female student with no consequences meted out by the university.</p>
<p>My son is at our alma mater, a small LAC. When we were students there many years ago, the college totally turned a blind eye to all alcohol issues. There was no regulation whatsoever - RA’s used to help us plan “around the world” parties in the dorms with a different featured mixed drink in each room! (Yes, the drinking age in this state was 21, although it was 19 in a neighboring state). It was a huge frat school at the time as well, with 80% of the guys pledging. The college’s reasoning seemed to be twofold:
95% of kids lived on campus. They were afraid if they clamped down on the drinking, it would just move off-campus and possibly involve driving.
If you were smart enough to get into this school, you were presumably smart enough to figure out how to handle your own social life.</p>
<p>Things have changed there quite a bit. The rules are much more enforced. The Greek scene is down to 35% or so of the kids, my son pledged but as he reassured us, “It’s not a very <em>fratty</em> frat.” His was the only frat not on probation last semester, but at the end of the semester the college’s public safety officers found <em>one</em> keg of beer in their fridge. Now they are banned from hosting any events for one semester. (Back in our day, if there was one keg in the fridge we’d have called the police to find out who stole the other 11!)</p>
<p>The college isn’t stupid, they have a Good Samaritan rule. From what DS says, there is still drinking if you want it, but it’s not nearly as pervasive or in-your-face as when we were there, and there are a LOT more alternative activities.</p>
<p>The exception to the college’s enforcement of alcohol rules seems to occur during the weekend of the big rivalry football game, MANY students gather on one field on campus and drink a LOT out in the open. DS told me the cops will check ID’s of those carrying the beer to the field, and they will stop/arrest you if you leave the field carrying alcohol. But the cops don’t actually patrol the field, they just stay on the perimeter, and students drink with impunity on the field within view of the police. I suspect the thinking again is that keeping it contained is a safer alternative than pushing it underground or off-campus.</p>
<p>It’s college. Kids drink. They did it when we were students, when our parents were students, they do it now, and they’ll do it when our grandkids are students. That doesn’t mean colleges should encourage it or allow it to be out of control, but please do not be surprised if you kid gets to college and finds out that alcohol is freely available. It was ever thus.</p>
<p>I think the alcohol policy here is pretty lax. The RA’s told us when we moved in that we shouldn’t have alcohol in our rooms because we were all underage, but that he didn’t care what we did as long as nobody was stumbling around drunk or disturbing the peace. Which sounds pretty typical from what I’ve heard from friends at other colleges. The frat parties on Saturday mornings/afternoons spill out onto the front lawn but the police don’t card anybody unless they step onto the sidewalk, so it wouldn’t be hard to openly drink right in front of the police, people do it every weekend. I have also heard that wandering around campus or the city drunk or with open containers will get you in trouble, but as long as you are on private property or in your dorm where no one will know apparently you don’t get caught. At the football game last week an 18 year old threw up and passed out in the stands and the medics couldn’t immediately revive him, and 20 minutes later they released him from the first aid station and he was back in the stands. There isn’t much that could shock me anymore but that one did, I figured nobody was going to get an MIP because they don’t usually in a situation where someone is in danger, but I was sure they’d make him go to the hospital. </p>
<p>However, from what I have heard, the drug policy here is pretty strict-- though in the city itself possession of marijuana is only like a $30 civil infraction or something, the university takes it more seriously from what I’ve heard. The RA specifically said he had zero tolerance for that and would bust anybody if he ever heard about it. I was kind of surprised given how lax the city itself is about it that the university takes it so seriously, perhaps to combat the backlash that comes from having such mild city laws on the matter.</p>
<p>At my son’s Ivy, alcohol is everywhere. Students stagger down the street. Occasionally, the cops round up a bunch, but generally there are no consequences.</p>
<p>Lafalum84, your comments were reassuring. I think that your college is my son’s current top choice. When I questioned the admission rep during our recent visit, she said pretty much the same as you. I was hoping that she wasn’t just saying what I wanted to hear. I am realistic enough to know that he will probably drink, so I want the college to have reasonable policies. He is looking forward to legally drinking when he goes back to Germany but thinks that binge drinking (at least at this time) is pretty stupid.</p>
<p>Laflum,
you crack me up. One keg in the fridge call to see who took the other 11! In my day we used to take kegs into the soccer stadium. The college decided on a big crack down-no kegs, cans or bottles only. Okay so now everyone has to carry two six packs in…problem solved :)</p>
<p>I know kids drink, I’m not naive. I think it’s unfortunate that so many kids are binge drinking, but I’m not on a crusade. I was just wondering if my D’s college is typical. From these responses, it sounds likely. There is absolutely no regulating of any kind at her college—her RA last year was constantly stoned and this year’s doesn’t sound any better. My own attitude has been that my D was mature enough to make her own choices and I’ve always been pretty lax about social issues. But when SHE starts complaining about the permissiveness of the administration, especially in light of the violent incidents, I start to wonder if they are not abdicating responsibility.</p>
<p>I’m not a fan of binge drinking - and if it’s becoming a situation where binge drinking leading to violence is a common, public occurrence and nothing is being done about it then I’d say you’ve got a legitimate beef.</p>
<p>Some schools have dorms that kids who “don’t party” can move to…those dorms often have “quiet hours” in the evenings, and even if you’re over 21, no alcholol in the dorms.</p>
<p>Colleges are sometimes misleading. My nephew’s school (a top 20 school) advertizes it is a “dry campus”…so my sister thought that meant no alcohol was allowed on campus, including the dorms. Actually it means no alcohol can be sold on campus. If you’re over 21 (and not in a freshmen dorm, you can have alcohol in your room. My sister feels “misled”.</p>
<p>at my DD’s Catholic LAC, if they catch under age kids w/ alcohol they generally pour it out and warn them. Too many offenses ar purported to lead to stiffer consequences but I really doubt that it ever comes to that. I think kids get cagier and hide it sooner and better. Conversations with the dean happen too but I seriously doubt that alcohol consumption has ever led to expulsion.</p>
<p>30 years ago when my SIL attended the same LAC they had a beer bash reception on move in day for the students and their parents. On move-in day at my school, around the same time the provost served Sangria to parents and students at the move in reception and my frosh dorm hosted a fund raiser called"Gonzo Night" where a different mixed drink was served in every room on the thrid floor. </p>
<p>So my perspective is that at least some things have changed for the positive. My DDs took an alcohol awareness class on line and their campus goes out if its way to offer alcohol free activities.</p>
<p>S2’s big state u. has a mandatory online alcohol awareness discussion for freshman. If it is not completed, their schedule is canceled.</p>
<p>His friend’s roommate was caught smoking pot in the room and was kicked out of the dorm but not out of the school.</p>
<p>The school runs what the kids call the “drunk bus” that runs from the downtown clubs to the students apt. complexes until the wee hours of weekend mornings. I think the drunk bus was an effort to keep kids off the road after drinking.<br>
I don’t think they check IDs on the bus. It’s a safe ride home.</p>
<p>From what I’ve heard of my two S’s experiences at their big state u’s and their friends at other schools, alcohol abounds for any who want it and they don’t seem to have any prob. buying it underage.</p>
<p>My D is at The University of Miami and I was really afraid it would be a party school but the University actually has a strict no tolerance policy for alcohol consumption on campus. All off campus parties at Frats have to be registered before they can occur. Sure, kids go to the Grove or South Beach and party at the clubs, but it is very easy to stay on campus and avoid the drunken vomit scene.</p>
<p>It is funny though how being a parent really changes your attitude towards drinking. I remember at Michigan State my first year we had progressive drinking parties in the dorms where each room would serve a different type of mixed drink. Talk about getting stupid drunk!</p>
<p>I think it’s entirely possible to have a lot of drinking and 0 tolerance for the kind of behavior the OP’s daughter witnessed. The culture I grew up in, both high-school and college, was completely alcohol-sopped: 18 drinking age, except I was refused admission to a bar only a couple of times after my 16th birthday. Official events at college mostly had drinks, often hard liquor, not just wine or beer. But people didn’t get into fights regularly, or harass women, or urinate in public. If they threw up (and they did), they cleaned up after themselves, or their friends did.</p>
<p>Sure, alcohol and boorish behavior go hand in hand, and where you find the latter you usually find the former, too. But they don’t HAVE to.</p>
<p>I asked my son about this when he called. His campus (2500 students) prohibits container alcohol on campus (no kegs, etc.). Of course the policy states alcohol is prohibited for those under 21. There is a “no empties” rule in the dorm rooms regardless of the student’s age which I thought was interesting as we would see empty beer can stacks on so many college tours. He says for the most part campus security does not get involved unless a party is large and noisy and the municipal police are rarely on campus. He said if you are walking from one dorm to another with a cup they don’t bother you or stop you. He said there isn’t anyone keeping track of who is 19 and who is 21. As the kids would say “it’s pretty chill.” There is no greek but there are off campus parties and a “safe ride” program in town. He thinks if someone was repeatedly involved with campus security it would go before the disciplinary committee but he can’t imagine someone that out of control sticking around long. I feel like his campus is pretty “average” to maybe “above average” in terms of what goes on although the college had a real party reputation back in the day.</p>
<p>S1’s experience is that the binge drinkers tend to be the kids from the strictest backgrounds. Kids who aren’t “used to” drinking suddenly find themselves in an environment where they can get all the alcohol they want but have no idea how to handle it. The underage students, “fearing” that they won’t get served at a party or bar, will have multiple shots of whatever and then head out. They’re half blitzed before the get to the party where a couple of beers suddenly sends them over the edge. Its especially a problem for the 100 pound co-ed who pops 4 shots of tequila in half an hour and then heads out to party.</p>
<p>The more stories I hear from S1 and his friends, the more I think it’s important to teach our kids how to handle alcohol and realize that it’s going to be around them no matter what school they go to. I hate to disappoint those who think small religious LACs are safe havens. We lived down the street from Wheaton College (IL), a zero tolerance school, for four years. The partying and drinking I witnessed (off-campus) by students rivaled anything I’ve seen here in Ann Arbor. The only difference being there were only a few hundred students at Wheaton compared to the thousands at Michigan.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, the bigger the Greek scene the bigger the drinking issues. I know the Greek community will scream about this, but stroll around a college campus on a Friday or Saturday and you’ll be able to identify the frats by all the empty red plastic cups strewn on the lawn. Lafalum84, I hope your son has a good experience, but being in the only frat not on probation seems like the definition of being damned with faint praise.</p>
<p>Vinceh I suspect what you say is probably pretty true. If I were a parent of a pretty closeted kid, I would probably be very nervous sending them off. I also think that the kids really need to understand the culture of the schools they are attending, it isn’t that hard to figure out and I while I feel sorry for kids that are blindsided, I don’t really understand the kids that land somewhere and suddenly have a problem with what is going on around them. I have to laugh because there was always jokes going around with my kids about how “wild” the Christian high school kids in the area were, so I guess on some level I have to believe your comment about the off campus scene at Wheaton. Fortunately kids can stay on campus if they want to avoid that stuff at Wheaton or Hope, Calvin, or any of the dozens of midwest colleges with strict campus rules as opposed to a school where it’s happening in the room one door over.</p>