Parents and prospective students must read before making their final decision

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
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<p>I feel compelled to address an issue that is not spoken about at William & Mary and it's one that every student should know about before committing to the school, especially if you are unfamiliar with the Virginia laws: the police will positively, absolutely throw you in jail if they can nab you for underage drinking. And in Virginia, minor in possession or public intoxication are charges that will stay with you for the rest of your life. Plead guilty and you'll never be able to have the charges expunged. </p>

<p>Believe me, I like W&M as a community: I love the eclectic mix of kids, the diversity, the size, the passion for learning and community service. It's a great school for my son. Fits him perfectly. He's met and bonded with people he'd never have talked to at our state school. But there is a very real and ongoing problem between the police and the students. And the administration does nothing to remedy the situation. </p>

<p>If your child goes to school at W&M, they need to realize that the police will not just write them a ticket, or put them in protective custody if they've been drinking. They will be arrested. They will have a record. And the police will actively be looking for them on Friday and Saturday nights -- on Richmond Road, in Newtown, and everywhere in between. They wait outside the Delis and WaWa to grab unsuspecting kids.</p>

<p>Last year my son was walking down Richmond Rd with several friends at 11:30 pm. Yes, they had been drinking and were laughing and enjoying themselves. They were not driving, they were not hassling the few people out at that time of night, they had no alcohol on them. But the police stopped them and arrested 2 of them for minor in possession (thru consumption). The boys spent the night in jail.</p>

<p>We got a lawyer for our son but the other boy pleaded guilty, was put on probation, went through alcohol classes, did community service and now has a record. </p>

<p>On the advice of our lawyer, our son pleaded guilty in the lower court and immediately appealed to the higher court to overturn it. While awaiting the second court date, my son did 60 hours of community service, kept his grades up and stayed out of trouble. The judge found him not guilty, dismissed the charge and we had it expunged. However, he still will have to answer yes to the question, "have you ever been arrested?" on any employment or graduate school applications and will have to give the details. </p>

<p>It is frustrating as a parent to bear witness to this. W&M is not a party school, but there are certainly parties -- they are college kids! Let's be realistic, there is always drinking at college. My son and the majority of W&M students will drink. But they will also study hard and spend long hours in the library. They will be involved in the community and give back in countless ways. I thought the W&M campus was perfect to keep the students safe -- small, confined, everything within walking distance, a population that looked out for each other. I'm not sure why the police have such animosity towards the students. I've heard that it's because the 'burg is focused on tourists and the retirees. I've heard that police see the students as "entitled and spoiled." But none of that makes sense: without W&M the town would suffer -- thousands of jobs lost, hundreds of thousands of hours of community service lost, countless commerce $$$ gone. These students make up 1/3 of the Williamsburg population and should be treated as a valuable group who contribute to the community in many ways. </p>

<p>Instead we have kids clogging the court system and the only people who make out are the lawyers. In fact, the lawyers have more business than they want -- we talked to one who said he averages 30 calls a week (yes, a week) from students who've been arrested for underage drinking. Talk to any student and even if they personally haven't been arrested, they know many people who have. Not just one. Many. And those who have been arrested are starting to talk about it -- to their friends back home, to friends on other campuses, to prospective students. My son wanted to transfer after his incident and there are many who do, taking their OOS tuition and future alumni-giving with them. Kids on other VA campuses know the reputation of the Williamsburg police. So why isn't the school working with the community and the police to change this adversarial relationship? They are aware of it -- the police send their reports to the college to ensure that W&M further punishes the students. </p>

<p>W&M will tell you that they have policies and programs in place to help students handle drinking -- the requisite alcohol awareness training for freshmen and the medical amnesty policy. But the medical amnesty policy is a college-only policy, which means the Williamsburg police don't have to accept it. A friend of my son's called 911 when a student passed out. The friend was promptly harassed by the Williamsburg police who stated "it's obvious you were drinking if you were with this person so we should just arrest you too" and the student who needed medical attention was also charged with MIP. So what lesson does that teach our kids? Never get the Williamsburg police involved? Never call 911 when you see a friend in trouble because it only means more trouble? We want our kids to act responsibly? Let's lead by example and have the police act responsibly as well. </p>

<p>I'm not suggesting there should be no consequences to underage drinking. I'm just saying that the punishment in Williamsburg doesn't fit the crime. And if you plan on attending W&M for 4 years, you need to be prepared. Protective custody, fines, community service -- all perfectly reasonable for first offenders. Many other great schools have attained good relationships with the local community and police force. Surely there's an opportunity for W&M to improve its rank as a place where students can have a wonderful learning experience and still have fun in a safe environment. I would hate for W&M to live up to its current reputation as the place "where fun has died since 1693."</p>

2

<p>The Williamsburg police are only doing their jobs. The police and the city are covering themselves, which they should. If one of these college students get drunk and end up driving and crashing into people, then the police will get in trouble for not stopping it sooner.</p>

<p>I think it’s stupid that the drinking age is 21, but it’s a law and students should have to follow it too. Down here in SOVA, the same thing basically happens to college/high school students who drink. W&M isn’t any different.</p>

<p>W&M is a great school and if a parent were to see this, I think it would turn them away from sending their kids here. It makes it sound like every student at W&M drinks - which they don’t. I know that some parents are understanding and know that students drink at college, but a large majority are pretty naive and will be shocked by what you say (even if it is the truth).</p>

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<p>I promise you that “many” of the people I knew at William and Mary were not arrested. Perhaps if your kid’s group had kept the volume down while walking down a road where there will obviously be cops, you know, used the brains that got them into W&M in the first place, he wouldn’t have been in that situation.</p>

<p>If the fun is dead, you can always transfer. Cheers.</p>

4

<p>I was dismayed by how much on campus drinking goes on.</p>

5

<p>Drinking underage is illegal. While the police may have been a bit less harsh with your son, he was participating in illegal activities and the police had every right to arrest him under VA law. I am, however, sorry for your troubles! </p>

<p>Mom4college- It’s college. W&M is by no means a party school. While one can expect alcohol on every campus (save the military academies), W&M is quite dry compared to say, Playboy’s #1 Party School.</p>

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<p>soccerguy315 – things have changed a lot since 2008 when you graduated. Ask any lawyer and they’ll tell you that the last several years have brought them more work than they can handle for MIP because of overzealous police. I’m sorry that you think my son’s situation is unique but sticking your head in the sand and using sarcasm to dismiss what happened is a poor substitute for real information. People need to know what to expect and I can tell you that NO ONE told my son to stay off Richmond Rd because “there will obviously be cops.”</p>

<p>By no means is W&M a party school. There are definitely students who do not party at all, as there are at all schools. My point is that it is college, kids test their boundaries and make mistakes – as we all do though out life. I love W&M but people should know the ramifications of one mistake. I never even thought of looking at the MIP laws for VA when my son got accepted but his lawyer was quick to point out that the VA laws are some of the most punitive in the country. </p>

<p>I don’t disagree with most of the comments to my post. Yes there should be punishments because it is illegal to drink under 21. Yes, the police are doing their jobs and yes, safety is a key concern for all of us. But what I’m pointing out is a police force who focus on punishment first, harsh punishment – not safety. I have even heard stories of kids who are 21 and legally drinking at the Deli who are harassed by the police…as they walk back to their dorms. The animosity between the police and the college will only push the kids to do stupider things – like drive to VA Beach or Richmond to party. And that’s when my stomach does back flips thinking about large cities, uncontrolled environments and cars. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, all these kids don’t have a voice and no one is speaking for them. They are anonymous because they don’t want to get into more trouble with the school, nor do they want to be further targeted by the police. The school needs to take a stand – do a blind survey, set up a student/administrative/police task force, stop funding the tutoring services or campus kitchen meals for the community – something to start meaningful discussions with the police force where mutual respect and safety are the ultimate goals. I would rather see the school change for the better than watch parents (who are alumni themselves and give generously to the school) pull their kids out because they’re frustrated by an administration that says it’s powerless to affect change with the local police.</p>

7

<p>we’re certainly sorry to hear of your son’s experience. We do believe that the W&M Police do work in conjunction with the Williamsburg Police to keep our students safe. Just as could happen in any college down, some police departments or individual officers may crack down on underage drinking more than others but no doubt there are just as many incidents when the Williamsburg Police did not arrest a student as they did arrest the student. One positive way of looking at this situation is that if there is evidence to show that the Williamsburg Police focus efforts on underage drinking it does speak to how safe the Williamsburg community is in general given their time isn’t spent fighting other more serious crimes.</p>

<p>As for drinking on campus, it certainly happens. No one would claim that it doesn’t. But our students are generally pretty smart about their drinking behavior (of course there are always excpetions) and drinking on campus where they don’t have to drive and there are support systems like RAs and friends may be safer than trying to drink (legally or not) off campus.</p>

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<p>This happens at all universities in VA including Vtech where my D goes. They spend way too much money trying to catch kids simply having fun. I couldn’t care less that my 18 year old kid or any other drinks a beer at a party and walks home. I trust her/him completely. The stupid 21 year old drinking law should be repealed. It’s totally unrealistic and borderline fascist.</p>

9

<p>Being too lax regarding underage drinking (by either local police and/or school administration) leads, over time, to a slippery slope of issues. There needs to be checks and balances and a realistic threat of the law. While it’s true that many colleges perhaps look the other way to underage drinking, they do so at their own peril. For instance, Colgate University in upstate NY, used to allow fraternities to own their own houses, used to “look the other way” during mixers/dances, and used to boast an over-the-top party atmosphere. However, this lax regard for the law (and student safety) ended up killing a number of young lives in a tragic car accident on campus about 10 years ago. Since then, Colgate reversed course, took ownership of the vaunted fraternity houses adjacent to campus, enforced the laws of the state, and essentially made Colgate a much safer place. Campus and local police are trying to avoid these types of tragedies. Do they sometimes over compensate? yes, probably. However, that’s a better error to make than being too lax. </p>

<p>For those interested in the Colgate tragedy, here’s a link.<br>
[Memorials</a> pay tribute to students killed in crash - Colgate University News](<a href=“http://blogs.colgate.edu/2007/11/memorials-pay-tribute-to-stude.html]Memorials”>http://blogs.colgate.edu/2007/11/memorials-pay-tribute-to-stude.html)</p>

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<p>During the summer before my D started, she received various emails about matters related to college (orientation, classes, ec.), and one of them included information about an alcohol survey or quiz to be completed in two parts, one prior to college and one about six weeks into the semester. I never heard any more about it but wondered if someone was collecting data about how exposure to alcohol and use increased in those six weeks.</p>

<p>Anyone…?</p>

11

<p>mom4college - I think this is alcoholEDU? It was put in place after my time… I’m not sure what it is tracking. I think the publicly stated goal is to make sure that freshmen are aware of alcohol and the ramifications.</p>

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<p>There are police in Williamsburg. Not a lot happens in Williamsburg, so they tend to keep busy “looking out” for underage drinkers. Richmond Road is the biggest road near W&M. Where else would the cops go? While your son’s situation may not be unique, it is far from commonplace. Do you really think most W&M students have been arrested? BTW I was on campus last weekend (admitted students weekend / young alumni weekend) and I saw plenty of plastered people not being arrested. People “need to know” that you can get arrested for underage drinking? Sure, perhaps they should be familiar with the law, I agree.</p>

<p>Your post makes it sound like the police are on a crusade against W&M students. The police are on much less of a crusade than the living wage students.</p>

<p>fwiw I think the drinking age should be 18.</p>

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<p>tx soccerguy, yes alcoholEDU or some such name rings a bell. When we were in college, we smoked dope, and there was very little drinking. So the whole culture of alcohol and underage drinking was not ours.</p>

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<p>calidreaming00 - I hope your concerns about job applications are unnecessary. If I’m not mistaken, job apps ask if a person has ever been convicted, not arrested. With your son’s sucessfull appeal, here’s hoping he can honestly answer “no” to that question. </p>

<p>My freshman son was also caught drinking underage this year. He was at an off-campus frat party (but not at W&M) where 80 kids were cited. However, in NC, this is being treated as a misdeamor. As a first offense, his sentence is “delayed conviction.” If he completes 25 hours of community service his record will be expunged. </p>

<p>My heart goes out to you. The shock, expense, and follow-thru on Son’s citation was pretty rough on our family. In fact, it’s one of several factors that landed Son in counseling this semester. I can’t imagine what it would be like if the penalty were stiffer. </p>

<p>However, having said that, I have to agree that the police are only doing their jobs. A crime is a crime and, as adults, we each have to manage our behavior to comply with the law. </p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

14

<p>AlcoholEDU is part of the Orientation program and it continues through the freshman year. It’s a way to eduate our incoming students about drinking and its possible perils. We do not know if the date collected is being used for any kind of scientific study but we do know one of its primary purposes it to assist incoming students in understanding how to behave responsibly.</p>