Algebra or Spanish

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I know this is early, since I have a middle schooler, but I need some advice.</p>

<p>My son is a 7th grader at a pretty demanding public middle school. He's mostly a B student with a smatterings of A's and C's, and is on the "gifted"* track for everything but math where he's "on level". He's generally pretty interested in his English, Social Studies and arts classes, and shows less interest in math and science. He's also interested in computer science and has taken computer camps and classes, but not at school. Non-academically, he's a pretty well rounded kid, plays a couple of sports (but not a superstar), sings in the chorus (but not a soloist), etc . . . </p>

<p>My son is quite insistent that he wants to study Arabic in high school and college with the goal of being either an archeologist, studying ancient Egypt, or an FBI agent. He also says he wants to study either archeology, ancient history, or computer science. We're lucky that our local schools offer Arabic starting in ninth, but I worry about him taking such a difficult course when he's a pretty average student. </p>

<p>At this point, we're making course decisions for next year (8th grade). He'll take gifted English, Science, and Social Studies of course, plus PE (required) and Chorus (which he loves). For the last 2 classes, it looks like he'll be able to either take preAlgebra and Spanish 1, or a double period Algebra 1 class (basically doing prealgebra and Algebra in a single year). </p>

<p>I'm torn. On one hand, if he takes Algebra 1 he'll be on track to take Calculus his senior year. If he ends up taking Arabic I think that would look good on a college application.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if Arabic doesn't go well, and he needs to switch to an easier language like Spanish, he'll only have 3 years of Spanish, and I've heard that doesn't look good for college applications.</p>

<p>I'd love thoughts on which looks better when he eventually applies.</p>

<ul>
<li>I don't think he's actually "gifted", that's just what they call the higher of the two tracks in our school, which feeds into honors and AP classes in high school.</li>
</ul>

2

<p>I would go with the Algebra. If he does end up switching to spanish he would still have 3 years, which is what most schools want to see. Unless you are expecting him to morph into vunderkid in the next 4 years, you probably don’t have to worry that Harvard might not like that he only had 3 yeard of spanish. OTOH, taking algebra leaves open the door to calculus or ap calculus, which he may or may not pursue, but at least its an option.</p>

3

<p>Thanks Sylvan!</p>

<p>I think he does turn out to be an academic vunderkind, he’ll presumably do well in Arabic and the Spanish will turn out to be unneeded.</p>

4

<p>I would definitely put him in algebra. It keeps many options open. I wouldn’t worry about Arabic being too hard - it’ll be a high school class, not a college one (yet), and if he’s excited about it then I’m sure he’ll have the motivation to do well. I also think Calc is more important than a fourth year of language, and really only the very top schools need that fourth year. </p>

<p>Disclosure: I’m a high school student.</p>

5

<p>The algebra is essential.</p>

6

<p>I agree he should take algebra. Arabic is hard, but my experience with hard languages in high school is that they just cover less material - they aren’t harder classes. My son is taking Arabic at Tufts where it really is hard! He wishes he’d had some exposure in high school like many of his classmates.</p>

7

<p>I should add that he could also theoretically drop Chorus and take Double Algebra and Spanish, but I worry about his ability to keep up with that course load (Algebra, Spanish, and gifted English 8 all go on the high school transcript), as well as having him give up something he loves.</p>

8

<p>I really don’t think the Spanish is important, especially if he plans to take Arabic in high school. I would keep him in chorus, especially if he likes it. Also, classes like chorus generally lead to chorus in high school, which is not only an extra curricular activity but also a nice class for a kid to have to blow off some steam in the middle of the academic day.</p>

9

<p>S2 (not a math guy) was put into Alg.1 in eighth grade without having taken pre-Alg. Despite all efforts he came out with a D. It was so frustrating for him.
Knowing he hadn’t learned anything, I had him retake Alg. 1 in the fall semester of ninth grade and honors geometry in the spring. He did much better. Made highest grade in the class on the end of year state Alg. exam. I was really sorry I let him be pushed ahead in eighth grade when he wasn’t ready.</p>

10

<p>another vote for algebra here. He will need the math if he decides to pursue the computer science.</p>

11

<p>Try the algrebra, but watch out for the “deer in the headlights” look that is one sign of him becoming overwhelmed. I’ve got one kid now in college who breezed through every level of math with nothing lower than an A ever, and who will probably major in math in college. He loves it, and has never, ever, been overwhelmed, or got to a place he couldn’t understand.</p>

<p>And I have another who was in the GT math track (sounds like we could be in the same district) in middle school, who was passing every test, but with Bs and Cs. In 7th grade her math teacher used that term “she looks like a deer in the headlights” to describe her. Knowing the pace and workload ahead if she kept on that GT track, we decided to have her repeat that math level the next year. </p>

<p>You would be amazed at what a difference that made for her in every class, not just math! The effort she had been making holding on in math had affected her in every class. ALL of her grades improved the next year, and have continued to be stellar in high school. I believe in challenging our kids, but the challenges need to be achievable.</p>

12

<p>What kind of colleges do you see him attending? If he takes pre-Algebra in 8th grade, what is the math class he would take in 9th grade, Algebra? That takes him through pre-calculus in high school. If he isn’t going to go the math route in college, that should be sufficient math for 99% of the colleges out there. I say take the pre-Algebra option along with Spanish I in 8th grade. It will give him some insight as to what will be expected of him learning a new language so when he starts Arabic in high school he will have a good idea of how to study.</p>

13

<p>ALGEBRA. He’ll need to master it to do well on the SAT.</p>

14

<p>Well, there certainly seems to be a lot of consensus!</p>

<p>To answer the questions: </p>

<p>Right now I see him at someplace small, where he’d get attention from professors, and maybe be able to play the sport he loves and sing in choir in a way that he might not in a bigger environment with more competition. But, I’m not sure if that’s what he’ll really need, or if it’s because I’m imagining my 13 year old at college, and in 5 years he’ll be ready for a huge school.</p>

<p>If he’s still determined to study Arabic in college, that complicates things, I think, because as far as I can tell the schools that have Arabic programs that go beyond two years are either very competitive (e.g. Middlebury, Macalester, Kenyon) or they’re big state flagships (UT Austin, UMD College Park). He’ll probably need to bring up his grades a little to make either of those. </p>

<p>As far as paths, our high school has both AP and IB options, and you don’t have to test into either. You can also blend them, so even though he won’t get a full IB diploma with Arabic as his language, he could still take IB math or IB history or whatever.</p>

<p>So, his options if he takes Algebra are:</p>

<p>Geometry or Honors Geometry, Algebra 2 or Honors Algebra 2, Precalc or Honors Precalc, AP Calc</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>Honors Geo, Honors Algebra 2, IB Math SL (which is 2 years)</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>Geo, Algebra 2, Precalc, IB Math Studies SL (which is 1 year).</p>

<p>If he takes prealgebra it’s:</p>

<p>Algebra 1, Geo (H or not), Algebra 2 (H or not), Precalc </p>

<p>Algebra 1, Geo (H or not), Algebra 2 (H or not), AP Stats</p>

<p>Algebra 1, Honors Geo, Honors Algebra 2, IB Math Studies SL</p>

15

<p>I say that for his goals in college, which I realize are coming from a 7th grader but WOW, pretty defined, either option will be fine. Our kids did the Algebra in 8th grade route and the only real negative is that they haven’t had Algebra for almost a year and really needed to brush up on that (and geometry) for their ACT/SAT testing. They are looking at math focused majors in college though. Our oldest was more of a humanities kid and didn’t even take math senior year in high school at all. He got into every college he applied to and tested out of the college math requirement. If your son is looking at Harvard, etc., he needs to get through Calc in high school. As a B student, Harvard isn’t a realistic choice anyway, so taking Spanish and pre-calc next year won’t hurt him in the long run.</p>

16

<p>^But if he’s excited about Arabic and not about Spanish, he should take Arabic. That goes double if the Arabic teacher has a reputation for being a good teacher. In fact IMO the best language to choose in high school is the one that has the best teacher. </p>

<p>BTW (while way too early to be planning for the OP) a B student could major in Comp Sci and minor in Arabic at American University and have access to DC internships during the year.</p>

17

<p>If he takes Spanish it would be for a year, to teach him how to study a language, and so he’d have a back up.</p>

<p>Our Middle School only offers Spanish, French and Mandarin. Arabic and a few other languages start in High School.</p>

18

<p>^Ah. Then, yes, why not take Spanish. At least in my experience it’s the one I wish I knew. (I speak French and German and a little Italian, but would love to be able to speak to my Hispanic clients - I am an architect - or even my cleaning woman in the language they are most comfortable with.)</p>

19

<p>I vote for algebra, especially since he has an interest in computer science. It positions him to have braoder options going forward.</p>

<p>As others have said, if he is motivated to study Arabic he will do better, especially if the teacher is good. One year of a language at the middle school level is pretty much useless in every way: academically and in terms of practical use of the language. Such classes move VERY slowly, and the time is simply too short to build up any real familiarity. If he wanted to pick up Spanish at some point, there are better ways to do it.</p>

<p>Mathmom, SPanish is a very easy language for someone who has studied French and Italian to pick up. If I were you, I would look into adult ed in your area.</p>