All Girls Schools vs Liberal Arts College vs Large Research Universities

College Search & Selection
1

Hi,

I realize that there are a lot of questions floating around about this. I’m a junior in high school and I was unsure what college I should go to. Below is a list of some that I’m considering and if you and if I’m considering applying early.
Northwestern (ED)
University Of Pennsylvania (ED)
Williams (ED)
Amherst (ED)
Columbia College (ED)
Pomona College (ED)
Cornell (EA/ED)
Swarthmore (ED)
Brown (ED)
University of Chicago (EA)
Barnard (ED)
Wellesley (ED)
NYU (RD)
UC Berkley (RD)
UNC (EA)

So, as you can see, my list is super large. I’m really unsure. I’d want a school with a good acceptance to good law schools and preferably not in a small city. I’d like to major in English and maybe something else, but go to law school. Right now I’m really involved in my school’s newspaper, so I’d like to get involved with my college’s newspaper as well. I’d also want a pretty large amount of diversity. Also, what schools are really hard to get A’s in. Like, I’ve heard that UChicago has lots of grade deflation. I’m pretty sure that I work better in small class settings, which I’ve heard is available in many discussion classes in larger universities.
Thanks!

2

Almost all the schools on this list (except Barnard and Wellesley) are very high reach schools for anyone. Do you require financial aid? If so, NYU, Berkeley and UNC will be less generous (unless you’re in-state) and everything else looks like need-based schools only.

You could start to whittle the list down by deciding if you want schools with an open curriculum (Amherst, Brown) vs. a required core curriculum (Columbia U, UChicago), for example. Also check transportation costs from your home which could make a difference in your budget. One reason my D. is at Emory (a strong English school, by the way) is that Atlanta has non-stop, reasonably priced flights. You should probably look for a few schools in at the 30-50% acceptance range as safeties, depending on what your stats are.

3

ACT or SAT or PSAT scores? Unweighted and weighted GPAs? Class rank? AP/Honors courses? ECs?

Most of those schools on your list are reaches for every student, but we need your academic profile for a better estimate.

4

I’m not really worried about “reaches” per se. I know that UNC and NYU are safeties for me, since almost everyone at my school gets into those. And I think I’ll be able to get into Berkley, Wellesley, and Barnard pretty easily. I’m just wondering which school should I apply ED for.

5

If you have to ask us which to apply ED to, you shouldn’t apply ED. ED is for when you unequivocally know that a school is your absolute top choice.

6

You should apply ED to the school that is absolutely your favorite and you would have absolutely no regret going to. I think it’s kind of odd that you have so many potential schools you would apply ED to. Think about which of those schools really stand out as perfect for someone like you. Also, have you visited any of these schools yet? Generally it’s not the best idea to apply ED to somewhere you haven’t visited because you could potentially get in and visit afterword and realize that there’s a lot about the campus/student body/general vibe that isn’t what you wanted.

When you say you don’t want to be in a small city, do you mean you would be fine in a large city or a suburban/rural area, but not something in between? In terms of population, what exactly do you define as a small city? Some would say Brown, UNC, UCB and Northwestern are in small cities, while others would say that Pomona, Cornell and Amherst are in small cities.

In general you’d have smaller classes at LACs, which tend to really value the small class setting and be able to offer it more because of smaller student bodies. However, it can vary from school to school. You can look up class size data for each school (different from student:faculty ratios).

UNC and NYU are not “safeties.” They are matches assuming you have the stats (you still haven’t told us your GPA or test scores). And Berkeley and Barnard are a toss-up for anyone. College admissions can be very random and are getting harder every year. You cannot rely on where other people from your school get into to determine what your safeties are, especially if you’re going to need any kind of financial aid (NYU gives awful aid, and UNC isn’t great either unless you’re and NC resident).

7

They’re women’s colleges :wink: and not mutually exclusive with LACs - Wellesley and Barnard are both women’s colleges and LCAs. I agree with @lalalemma that UNC and NYU aren’t really safeties for anyone. They might be match schools, where you have a good chance of admission, but are by no means guaranteed.

I agree - if you have this many schools, you shouldn’t apply Early Decision at all. None of them is a clear favorite that you would choose above all others, which is what ED is for. You can apply to the non-binding EA programs, of course, but you should just apply RD to some of these schools (and add some real safeties and some more matches to the list).

The liberal arts colleges (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Swarthmore, Barnard, and Wellesley) will have the smallest ones, but those medium-sized elite universities (Northwestern, Penn, Columbia, Brown, Chicago) will also have relatively small classes with the exception of a few very popular required classes. For example, at Columbia, the intro psych lectures and the pre-med lower-level classes tend to be quite large, but the intro writing class (equivalent of English composition other places) are all small seminar sections. If you know that you are going to thrive in a small environment, though, you can eliminate Berkeley and UNC from your list - particularly if neither of those is an in-state option for you. You might also choose to jettison Cornell and NYU, as they are the next biggest schools on your list.

The other thing to consider is whether you really want a traditional campus; NYU doesn’t have one, and the type of student who goes there wants a more unconventional college experience (New York serves as their campus).

I also am confused by your definition of small city - if you mean that you don’t want to be in a rural or suburban area, a lot of the schools on your list fit that - Williams and Cornell are both in more rural areas; Northwestern is really in a suburb of Chicago; UNC is a small college town (but close to Raleigh); Pomona is in Claremont, which I think is like 45 minutes away from LA. Swarthmore is in a suburb of Philadelphia but not in it. And Amherst is a small college town that’s not particularly close to any large cities.

8

Applying EA (early action) is one thing, but you can only apply ED (early decision) at one place. Some selective schools even have restrictions on their Early Action. Applying ED means they are your top choice HANDS DOWN and that if accepted, you will go there no matter what. If you have to ask, you can’t do ED. These schools are all reaches no matter what you would like to think.

UNC and NYU are not safeties for people. Unless you have drop dead stats, NYU is definitely not a safety. UNC for out of state students is especially difficult.

9

Sit down with your parents, and run the Net Price Calculators at the websites of each of these places. You need to know now whether or not they can be made affordable for you.

Once you know what your parents can pay, you will know how hard you will have to look to find at least one true safety (fully affordable, guarantees admission for your grades and test scores, & you would be happy to attend if you don’t get in anywhere else affordable).

10

I think I may have mislead a lot of people. I’m not considering applying ED to all those schools. I’m debating between these schools: Northwestern, University Of Pennsylvania, Swathmore, Brown. I think these would be all reaches (except I’m unsure of Swathmore?, but I’m considering it because I am considering going to a LAC.
UNC is a safety because no one at my school has ever been rejected to UNC (i’m in state). I go to a magnet school.
As for large cities, I’m okay with the suburbs with proximity to close cities. I don’t think I’d like Williams or Cornell for that reason, and I would be okay with Northwestern or UNC.

11

Wasn’t aware you were in-state. Okay.

Cost-wise, what can your parents afford? You’ll need some financial safeties where you are CERTAIN to get merit.

12

If you want to be near a big city, cross Williams, Amherst and Cornell off your list.

Northwestern, Penn, Swarthmore and Brown are all really different. What is it that you like about each of them? Have you visited each of them? If you have, one or maybe two should stand out as the best for you. Otherwise, like others have said, I wouldn’t apply ED.

Also, is this your final college list, or just your favorites where you might apply early? If it’s the former, I think you need to find more matches and safeties. Right now, assuming you have great stats, there are only two or three schools on your list that aren’t reaches.

13

You may be referring to the discussion/lab sections that often complement big lecture classes at large research universities. These sections typically are led by graduate teaching assistants (TAs). They might have 20-30 students at a top state flagship. The corresponding lectures sometimes have hundreds of students (but almost always will be taught by a professor.) Even the most selective, prestigious research universities usually have some classes with enrollments >100 students. They usually also have a number of discussion/lab sections led by graduate students.

If you really want to dig deep into what you’d be getting at the schools that interest you, then search through the online course listings. In some cases, if you look hard enough, you can find enrollment numbers (as well as the instructor name, which you can look up in the faculty or graduate student listings).

14

I’m not going to apply for financial aid because there is a 0% chance that I will get any. Merit scholarships are cool, but I don’t really need them and my parents are really supportive & willing to pay whatever.

15

I’ve never visited any of the colleges except for NYU, Columbia, and Barnard (since my brother goes to college in Columbia). I’m visiting the Boston schools this summer and the ones closer to Pennsylvania too. I’d like to go to a law school, and many liberal arts schools are great at preparing you for professional schools; I just hate how many of them are in rural areas.

However, I’ve done a little research online of the colleges and I can see “different versions of myself” fitting in at all of these schools.

16

In that case, wait until you finish your visits before you decide where you’re going to apply ED. While different versions of yourself will fit at a few different schools, being at a campus gives you a whole nother sense of the school. You’ll be able to visit Brown, Penn and Swarthmore but not Northwestern, correct?

If you don’t like LACs that are in rural areas, then don’t apply to LACs that are in rural areas! There are plenty that aren’t in the middle of nowhere. Swarthmore, Barnard, Wellesley and Pomona are amazing LACs that are all either in or very near major cities. If your looking for others, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Macalester, Reed, and the other Claremont colleges all match those criteria as well.

17

I’ve heard that visitig doesn’t really give you a holistic view of the school, since all the tour guides show you the “amazing things” of your schools. And yup, I’ll be unable to visit Northwestern.

18

@gravitymp3 If you stray away from the crowd and go by yourself, you can see a lot more. On my first tour at a college at an open house, my parents and I wandered away from the main crowd and made our own path. Second time visiting the same school, I had a guide but it was a very small group (we were split up – it was me and another kid) so we were able to customize our tour a bit.

19

Thanks for the advice.

20

@gravitymp3 I’m not talking about tours. Obviously those only flaunt the best aspects of the schools (though they’re not a bad idea because aside from seeing the campus, you learn about traditions and campus-wide jokes and that sort of thing. They’re also often led by students who can answer a lot of questions). I’m talking about walking around the campus, observing classes and events, and talking to the students. These are the types of things that really give you a sense of the school’s community and how you’d fit into it. I say this both because I’ve experienced it myself and because countless other people have told me the same thing.