<p>I have been hearing that all those kids who don't get into Ivy league schools end up at WashU. WashU is a fallback school for all those who want to attend Ivy schools. Is this true?</p>
<p>Well, not just WashU.</p>
<p>Schools like Duke, Chicago, and Northwestern are all filled to brim with HYPS rejects.</p>
<p>That's just how it is, I suppose.</p>
<p>I think that the above post is a bit incorrect. Universities, such as Northwestern, with binding ED are increasingly becoming first choice schools. It was posted on another thread that Northwestern has the third highest number of National Merit Scholars (NMS) behind Harvard & the Univ. of Texas. Schools with non-binding EA may be somewhat different in terms of whether or not it is truly a first choice school as many students want to have a sure admission in hand before sweating out RD for their first choice Ivy. My purely unscientific impression is that Tufts & JHU are more likely to be backup schools for Ivy league rejectees, than Duke, Northwestern or Washington University in St. Louis. I also think that any studies or statistics more than two years old are no longer valid regarding school preferences due, in part, to recent changes in ED/EA policies and to the surge in college applications. If an elite school such as Northwestern University were to offer merit scholarships (beyond the insignificant $2,000 NMF/NMS award), then the first choice revealed preferences studies would be totally invalid as the battle to get into NU with a merit scholarship would drastically increase applications, just as the results at WashUStL, and many Northwestern students rejected Cornell & Penn, two Ivies, for NU. Also NU applicants probably do not apply to the other Ivies as much as they do to Penn & Cornell as these are all largely pre-professional schools.</p>
<p>I think there are a lot who go to Wash U because they could not get into HYP (some applied and were denied some didn't even apply). As someone pointed out, that is true of quite a few top 20 schools. In terms of the "lesser Ivies" (am not going to name them for fear of going off topic) Wash U has a higher SAT than some of them, so, while SAT is only one part of the app, I have to think a lot of these kids could have gone to some of the Ivy schools had they wanted to.</p>
<p>Dartmouth rejects probably end up at similiar schools such as Middlebury College, Colgate University, Amherst, Williams or Bowdoin College. Brown rejectees may end up at Oberlin, Bowdoin, Tufts, Amherst or Williams. Columbia rejectees may end up at Georgetown, JHU, Swarthmore, Wesleyan or UCLA. Harvard rejectees at Northwestern, Georgetown, Amherst or Williams.</p>
<p>I agree with HartinGA, and I think it says a lot about students at the aforementioned schools. Whereas a lot of the students could've gone to one of the lesser Ivies for a more prestigious degree, they decided to go to another school for a (seemingly) better education or just a better fit. Of course, this isn't true for all students. I also know a fair amount of people here (at UChicago) who rejected schools like MIT, Harvard, or Stanford to come here. I'm sure this is true with the other mentioned universities as well.</p>
<p>Post #4 above raised an interesting point regarding average SAT I scores at elite universities. Average SATs are Yale 1495, Harvard 1495, Princeton 1485, WashUStL 1450, Stanford 1445, Duke 1440, Dartmouth 1440, Northwestern 1435, Chicago 1430, Penn 1425, Rice 1420, Columbia 1420, Tufts 1415, CMU 1410, Notre Dame 1405, Middlebury 1395, Cornell 1395, Georgetown 1395, Vanderbilt 1390, Johns Hopkins Univ. 1390, Emory 1385, USC 1365, NYU 1335, Boston College 1330, UC Berkeley 1325, Michigan 1320, Virginia 1310 & UCLA 1295. Noteworthy is that Northwestern & Chicago fall in the middle of the Ivies with four Ivies ranking lower in terms of average SAT I scores. A reasonable conclusion might be that Northwestern & Chicago are preferred over many Ivies and are not schools largely populated by Ivy rejects, but are schools populated with some Ivy rejects (Harvard, Yale & Princeton rejects) and by many Ivy rejectors ( Penn-not Wharton,though, Cornell, Columbia & Brown). Dartmouth probably doesn't share many cross applicants with Chicago & Northwestern. The same appears to be true for Duke & WashUStL.</p>
<p>You know, I just noticed the name of the poster and read his/her other posts. I think we are wasting our time. It looks like they just came over from the Ivy boards and did some flame throwing. If I am wrong, and it is a sincere question, then my apologies for these flame balls:</p>
<p>Of all the Ivies to be snobby, Cornell has to be in the poorest position. Wash U has a higher SAT, is tied at 12th with Cornell in US News, is more selective than Cornell per US News, and is harder to get into than Cornell per Princeton Review. Cornell is a great school, but it has nothing on schools like Duke, Chicago, Wash U, NW, Emory, etc.</p>
<p>It's kind of funny how some of you are defending Wash U by bashing other schools. I applied to Wash U, but also Cornell. If you check your rankings, (since that is a nice medium to go by), Cornell and Wash U are tied at #12. Emory and Northwestern are both ranked below Cornell and Wash U. So how does Cornell have "nothing on schools" like Emory and NW? I fail to see your logic. Additionally, a degree from Cornell will get you much farther than a degree Duke, Chicago, Wash U, NW, and Emory solely based on the fact that it is an Ivy. It's just the truth, whether you like it or not. </p>
<p>Also, why are schools such as Swarthmore and UCLA being grouped together? That is a COMPLETELY wrong comparison. People who apply to Swarthmore don't apply to UCLA, and vice versa. They are entirely different schools, in terms of size, location, curriculum, public v private...etc. Additionally, UCLA has some minute amount of OOS students, so I doubt most people from anywhere but CA would even consider applying there.</p>
<p>Swarthmore & UCLA references are from information released by the respective Ivy League school regarding cross applicants. Anyone suggesting that a Cornell degree is more impressive than a degree from Duke, Chicago, Northwestern or WashUStL is not being fair or realistic. All of these schools, including Cornell, are very marketable and sought after. Different universities have different strengths. For example, Cornell's hotel school is one of the best in the world. WashUStL for medical research & medicine. Northwestern for journalism, economics, acting/drama & education/social policy. Duke for everything. Chicago for economics and grad school. Penn for business.</p>
<p>I think that those of you that get defensive when you hear something like this need to ease up a bit. WUSTL is perfectly good, and will get you anywhere you want to go, regardless of the "prestige" of the Ivies. While the average person on the street knows only about the Ivies and the big sports schools, WUSTL is widely recognized in academia. I ED'd to WUSTL with no intent of applying to the Ivies though I definitely have the qualifications to get into the lower Ivies, and could have had a shot at HYPS with a few more EC's. Though me already being in St. Louis played a big part in that decision, I would probably have liked to go to WUSTL regardless. When someone says something like "WUSTL is for Ivy rejects" to me, I just don't care...why are you so concerned about the opinion of a random person? The people who matter know about WUSTL and hold it in high regard.</p>
<p>svg, I am not bashing other schools, just bashing people who create insincere posts in an attempt to insult others. You seem to have missed where I wrote "Cornell is a great school." Hardly bashing.</p>
<p>Diff Diff
Rank 25% 75% 25% 75% Tot Diff
1) Harvard 1400 1590 0 0 0
2) Princeton 1390 1580 -10 -10 -20
3) Yale 1390 1580 -10 -10 -20
4) MIT 1380 1560 -20 -30 -50
5) Pomona 1380 1530 -20 -60 -80
6) Wash U 1370 1530 -30 -60 -90
6) Dartmouth 1350 1550 -50 -40 -90
8) Stanford 1340 1550 -60 -40 -100
9) Duke 1330 1540 -70 -50 -120
10) Amherst 1330 1530 -70 -60 -130
10) Brown 1330 1530 -70 -60 -130
10) U of Chicago1320 1530 -80 -60 -140
13) Penn 1330 1520 -70 -70 -140
13) Williams 1320 1520 -80 -70 -150
15) Northwestern1320 1500 -80 -90 -170
15) Claremont McK1300 1500 -100 -90 -190
15) Cornell 1290 1500 -110 -90 -200
18) Georgetown 1300 1490 -100 -100 -200
18) Carnegie 1290 1490 -110 -100 -210
20) Reed 1310 1470 -90 -120 -210
20) Bowdoin 1300 1470 -100 -120 -220
22) Johns Hopkins 1280 1490 -120 -100 -220
23) Wesleyan 1290 1480 -110 -110 -220</p>
<p>From the web page: College</a> Navigator - Washington University in St Louis
Hopefully it aligns - otherwise I apologize.</p>
<p>right on srunni....GO NOTRE DAME</p>
<p>jimb7: Did you miss Columbia University on your SAT list?</p>
<p>Yes - sorry I did - thank you for catching that. 1330 and 1540 tying it with Duke. The list by the way is my compilation subject to math and possibly other issues.</p>
<p>Well, some WUSTL rejects end up at Ivies (just check last year's acceptance thread) ;)...</p>
<p>It almost makes me laugh when people disregard WashU because it is not an Ivy. They have no idea what they're missing.</p>
<p>I would accept WashU over any Ivy. I think they are all overrated. How many students would apply to Cornell if it did not have the title of being an Ivy? My guess is that their app numbers would be much lower.</p>
<p>Wash U. is largely responsible for the image (incorrect i might add) that Wash U. is for Ivy rejects. Wash U. is notorious for having the Tufts syndrome- rejecting or waitlisting applicants that they consider "overqualified" for Wash U. -meaning that the adcoms think student X is bound to get into HYP, and most likely turn down Wash U.- so they waitlist student x or reject him to increase their yield.</p>