Another thing to consider is travel. Wooster is great but how would she get there? Are there direct flights to Cleveland or Akron? Then an hour shuttle or Uber to Wooster. Flying isn’t as fun or reliable as used to be. Also more expensive.
S20 is at Georgia Tech. 90 minute direct flight. Several daily. Much easier than 3-6 hour drives to our state flagships.
What does your D think of schools like College of Charleston, Furman, Rhodes? Those are likely to meet budget. While I liked the suggestion of Bucknell, I don’t know that they have merit to meet your budget.
Since your D is not completely on board with UNC-A, I would not cut the current list. When you’re hunting for competitive merit, the typical advice is to apply widely.
My son loved and wanted to go to Richmond but the $ wasn’t there for us. Ended up at Furman and loved it. Lots of opportunities for exploring a variety of interests and strong connection with professors who genuinely seemed to love teaching there.
I think the list of colleges that are buyers vs sellers could help Which Colleges Are Really Buyers and Which Are Sellers - Jeff Selingo
The spreadsheet has the admission rates, average merit amount and how many people without need are offered merit all in one place. This can help as you try to balance prestige, merit, and location.
Thank you. I have college of Charleston on an alternate list, so it is in consideration. I’ve heard of Rhodes and Furman, but I am worried about whether or not the campuses are liberal versus conservative. She’s not involved in activism, but she wants to be in a place where there are plenty of like-minded/liberal peers.
Got it. While we found Furman very accepting, it may lean too conservative for your D. Rhodes may still be worth a look.
So looks like you got a lot of responses, but you need to really get your priorities in order.
If I look at what you wrote, you have three things:
How would you rank those? I ask because you’re willing to spend $160K but what if I said you could go to very respectable (and with small classes) Tulsa for free - so travel and other living expenses but no tuition or room and board? Or Alabama and even do a Randall Research program or Blount Scholar and have small classes and have no tuition and housing paid all four years…so food and travel…maybe $7-8K a year.
Would you rather pay $40K and be close or under $10K - and yep, you give up geographic flexibility…now you said no South, but that’s where the $$ is - and there’s a reason that a school like Bama is 60% OOS - so while you think South, the truth is that the West, Midwest (especially Illiniois), and Texas and California are all hugely represented.
So - getting back to being a merit chaser.
You have 20 common app spots and my suggestion is to use them all - except in one instance. Now many schools don’t have additional essays or many can be used…we used one from UNC 6 or 7 times as it was the same as other schools.
So I think there are three buckets of schools - and you had #1 and #3 but are missing #2 which is why I raised concern.
#1 is a school that is an admission and financial assurance - so getting in and hitting budget without a single iota of merit. That’s UNC Asheville.
If you’re 100% sold on UNC Asheville and if your student ended up there, life is good - then FANTASTIC and forget my note about applying to 20. But if your student will cringe if that’s where they’ll end up, then you need more.
Other schools can hit this bucket - an App State, East Carolina, UNCW, etc.
#2 is a very important bucket - these are schools where we have a decent shot of getting in and will most certainly hit the # (but it’s not assured). This is - and it’s not on your list - but a U of SC. This may be a Christopher Newport U (about $44K but a decent chance at merit). A Florida State or other Florida Schools would fit. You need enough of these - they don’t all need to be safeties but several do. These you know you can attend and afford…to be close, a WVU and/or Marshall…we can even throw in Miami from your list because with the minimum scholarship, you’d be about 41K…but you need a few of these schools that you know will hit. For my daughter, it was Arizona, FSU, U of SC, College of Charleston, Miami, Denver…we had a $50K budget so we knew some would hit. You might look at St. Marys of Maryland (it’s public, not private) and Salisbury plus a Millersville in PA as three more names that would hit this bucket both admission and financially speaking.
Bucket #3
These are your Elon, Richmond, William & Mary, American…for us it was the UMD, WUSTL, UGA type schools - and this is what you have too many of…they may be safety, target or reach admit wise but they are hugely unlikely to hit budget but they are possible. At W&M, for example, you need to be one of 8 students to hit the 1693, which according to their website, covers in state tuition, room and board…so it’s possible, but highly unlikely. So same with a Richmond, AU, etc.
So it’s ok to have some of these - but know that the likelihood of you going is slim to none. My daughter got into UMD but no $$. She got into W&L at $82K but with a $50K budget and no award - it was off the list.
So the Vandy’s of the world or WUSTL or whomever offers a scholarship to get you to $40K -thrown in a flyer on a few - but just assume you’re not going.
There is a 4th bucket - these are schools that only give merit aid. The Ivies, Gtown, etc. and those you don’t go near as a full pay family that wants to pay $40K.
Other schools -you may look at the Wofford and Furman threads…see how this year’s class did…maybe they’re more possible than Richmond, for example.
So hope that makes sense.
So the first question I have is - rank your priorities…and if cost is #1, then how flexible are you on #2 and #3 because to hit merit, you need to be flexible.
But if I’m in your shoes, I want multiple schools from #1 and #2 - and I’d pepper with three or four schools in from #3.
So:
Verify she likes UNCA
Can she like any other NC state schools (not named UNC/NC State)
Find others that likely will hit budget - Miami Ohio plus a few more (I threw in some names).
Then 3-4 of your I’m not going even if I get in but there’s a glimmer of hope (most the rest of your list)
That’s long winded but I threw in more names and hope something works. As an aside, when chasing merit, generally (but not always), you want more, not less apps.
Best of luck.
Honestly, I think the political climates of college is waaaaay overrated.
A kid needs to find it. Short of a few schools, and AU may be one, it doesn’t find them.
I keep reading that where my son went is conservative…I dunno…he’s completely clueless politically and was never involved or approached on anything.
Most kids go to school, study, party, work, etc…sure some are political…that’s their activity, their thing…but I think any apolitical kid or a kid who has leanings but doesn’t want life to be lived that way will be perfectly fine at 98% of schools.
You really need to seek it out…
Yes, Fordham offers full-tuition scholarships for NMF/NMSF. It also gives full-tuition scholarships for National Recognition Scholars (e.g. African-American, Native American, Hispanic.) Not all students with these designations receive the scholarship, but about 70% do. The remaining room, board and fees is still expensive (about $25K), but it would be well under your budget. Also Fordham does give out a few full-rides (tuition, room, board, fees +stipend.) Of Fordham’s 2 campuses, the Rose Hill one seems like the better fit in your student’s case. 8,000 students and beautiful, traditional, gated campus, right across the street from the NY Botanical Gardens (free admission for Fordham students.)
So unless your student is 100% against the idea of NYC, I would strongly consider.
That looks like a great list. If you’re looking to cut it down, I’d remove Binghamton at least, because it’s far from NC but not near any major airports. UNC Asheville seems like a really nice school and would be a solid safety (I haven’t been to the school but I love Asheville from my visits in the past, and it seems like it would be a great place to go to school, and I really like the things I read about it, and it’s an amazing bargain especially if you’re in state). Best wishes to you and your daughter!
Thanks so much for this! So helpful. My husband also wants “name recognition” for her. Trying to tell him we can’t have everything, and maybe he can contribute to the research, lol. I do need to look into the Ohio schools, to figure out which ones will be easiest to access, in terms of traveling to and from…
More schools are ‘prestigious’ than you’d ever know. A lot are major dependent. And prestige doesn’t by a job or put money in mom/dads pocket.
When I was watching the Jan 6 panel last year, they key witnesses came from schools like Christopher Newport and Kent State. One staff person the Donald fired for loose lips was Charleston. His head of strategy was from Patrick Henry. One doesn’t need a huge name to be huge.
I work for a global firm. Our US leader is from Fairleigh Dickinson. Yep the Vandy MBA, Harvard law work for him. My boss went to an HBCU (Alabama State) - I have two well known schools for UG and MBA. Another leader on my team went to W Georgia - a public I was unaware of.
My son chose Bama (yes it’s known) but over elite Purdue engineering. Same with my daughter in going to a safety va big names. My son has a great career set to start and daughter a fantastic internship this summer. It’s the kid as much if not more than the school that matters.
But know if you want a ‘big’ name - you often pay.
Yesterday you asked about Binghamton on another thread. I’d send my kid each and every day of the year. But it doesn’t have ‘national’ name recognition - in my opinion. One of the recent posters said he hadn’t heard of Rice til he was regularly on the CC. So a name means different things to different people. Few nationally but more than before - are likely aware of Elon - which has done a great job. Or Colby. Doesn’t make them not worthy !!!
As for Ohio schools - Ohio State is easy to get to by flight but very big. Miami to me is like a huge W&M - rural but less than an hour to the Cincy airport. Kids do this but yea at come home times you’ll have that expense.
I forget where in NC you are but Miami is 9 hrs from Raleigh, Ohio U, another not overly large public is 6.5 hour drive but would be less ‘fly able’ than Miami in my opinion. Likely Ohio State and Cincinnati are too big.
U Dayton is a respected small/midsize private you might look into (religious in affiliation and yep Dayton has an airport). Not sure if you can get to cost. @EconPop might be able to guide on religious aspect and potential cost.
Thank you. I definitely hear you on all of this. There are many factors to consider and trade offs to be made.
Hi @jrskaratz , another NC’er here. I almost jumped in a couple of times, but felt anything I added would be superfluous to all the responses so far. But because @tsbna44 shouted me out, I’ll be superbly superfluous.
For points of reference, a lot of what I’ve gleaned over the past few years was in service to helping my S20 land in a place that fit his/my needs. He was a B high school student with an above (national) SAT average but significantly lower than the high flyers here at CC. I’m a single parent of three, we were Pell eligible and he is African-American. We needed significant FinAid for S20 to attend a private university or an OOS public. Most of what I say came out of our search.
IMO, you need to add to the list, not reduce the list. When significant FinAid (whether merit-based or need-based) is required, the search requires more eggs in the air. Certainly feel comfortable removing a school that you determine will never be affordable or is a horrible fit – but I wouldn’t be so quick to remove a school for more trivial reasons.
NC schools: I would add at least one other, or take 2 or more trips to UNCA to verify your daughter truly likes it. S20 and I visited about a dozen NC schools and it was surprising what stood out to him. And surprising that a second visit sometimes changed his mind and led to a greater appreciation.
Mid-Atlantic: I thought this was the Venn Diagram fit for what I wanted in his destination, mostly for selfish travel-related reasons. I knew that anything from NC-MD would be a reasonable drive, and be very affordable, and was an easy “emergency” skip away. Unfortunately, as you may be discovering, there aren’t really that many student+admit+financial fits in this region. For the benefit of being relatively close, I’d recommend adding to the list schools including GWU, Christopher Newport and Loyola MD.
Further Afield: OH-IN-MN is rich in options. If you’re checking out OH as a possibility, seriously consider adding the other two of the quartet of well-regarded LAC options, Kenyon+Oberlin. Take a swing at Macalester, and keep your mind open about U of St Thomas, which offers fantastic FinAid to induce more AAs to enroll, and is in a great location, near to Macalester.
NE Corridor: Once you start considering SUNYs and Fordham, you might as well open the book. In PA take a look at Allegheny, Ursinus and Saint Joseph. In NY review Marist and Manhattan College.
Name Recognition and Prestige: Very early in the search for S20, I focused overly on USNWR rankings. Later, when my research led to deeper considerations, I realized that was a mistake. When comparing Student Outcomes, many of the schools without national name recognition matched or exceeded universities that placed higher in rankings. Even using the comparison tool on their website, it revealed that comparing metrics like Class Size, Graduation Rate, Job+GradSchool percentages, Salaries, nearly all the schools mentioned in this thread tracked favorably to schools ranked in the top 80.
I won’t bother to open the can of worms about the “worth” of Ivys and Ivy-adjacents, and derail this thread. They’re top 15 schools and there are some advantages to attending one of them. But by the time you get to the mid-20s in ranking, it’s eye opening to compare the metrics I mentioned. And there are other comparison tools on other sites.
So I figured if the class size and post-graduate outcomes were the same, there was no reason to eliminate a school simply because my preconceived notions were … to be kind … not fully thought out.
Distance: Yeah, it’s not the easiest thing driving 8 hours one-way to get to my son. And unfortunately, it usually costs twice as much to fly into Dayton’s airport as it cost to go from NC-NYC or NC-MIAMI. But after three years in OH, I can say that it hasn’t been bad. I drive him there in August, visit him mid-semester, round-trip-flight at Winter break, mid-spring-semester visit by me, and drive up to get him and his stuff in May. While a lot of his high school classmates attending in-state publics come home a dozen times a semester, I’m glad S20 is usually only home for winter break and summer break. IMO, It’s giving him the time away to grow into his mature self, away from familial and peer expectations.
Applications: If it’s affordable (app fees and test score sending) I’d say fill up every Common App slot. The reality is when searching for sizeable FinAid, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to predict which schools will offer enough. Dayton and Wooster were not on our initial (or even second) list, but both were in the final-five final-decision round.
As the process grew to include many targets, I felt the ending might be very different from the first days of consideration. And It turned out to be correct. Like you, we loved U Richmond and Elon, but Elon is need-aware and UR is not an easy admit - there is no way to be certain either will be a realistic option at the end. The good news is there are many many options that will give your daughter what they give, only maybe a little further away.
Even if your student says today she’s happy with a small field (let’s say UR, Elon, UNC, UNCA, American) you should take it upon yourself to include as many others as possible. After decisions are released, it’s very possible the only admission-offered and affordable option on that list will be UNCA. Not a bad choice at all, but it would be nice to have affordable alternatives next April, especially when we all know that teenage minds can change instantly. What she thinks she hates today, might be what she loves ten months from now. Widening the scope allows a greater chance of more options.
Good luck!
You rock. As always. That’s why I tagged you 
I do think one difference is this student is full pay (if I remember correctly) so it will be all about actual tuition and/or merit - would you still include GW and some of the others you noted ?
Yes, full pay
Thank you so much for this-I am very grateful for the time and care you put into your response. I have learned/am learning so much about this process. I will be expanding our list—hopefully we will end up with some nice options in the winter-to-spring. I agree that a lot can change, and we must focus on what is probably going to be realistic. If my daughter remains attached to a sm/med-sized “pretty campus” school, we need to visit a few more that may meet our affordability and admissions criteria.
I do think we need to be willing to go more north and/or Midwest in our search. Deep South is a no-go for us (parents and child agree). I need to research how I will get to my girl and how she will get home—if she even decides she wants to come home that much.
Some I may want to add…
-College of Charleston
-The other nice Ohio LACs- I can’t see your list of recommendations as I type this
-A couple in PA/NY?
Thank you again!!!
Why not CNU which is close and rated very high in facets of campus, dorms, and food.
If it was good enough for the person who testified against trump - ie she got a great job as mark meadows chief of staff….then it’s nothing to sneer at.
Charleston may make your budget. CNU WILL make your budget. You might look at Salisbury too and it does sound like Bing can be a winner. In US News, Charleston is ranked 9th in regional universities South. CNU is 5. Likely not a known name but a school where a W&M rejection may end up. Not a bad school at all.
You definitely need visits. My daughter was super high on Elon, Richmond, Wake Forest and Miami Ohio til we visited and then was turned off after visiting.
So finding on paper choices is nice but you need to visit too.
I would, only because many schools can be very obtuse when allotting merit/scholarship funds. GW has several levels/amounts of scholarships, and has special scholarships for department/major/outreach/etc. There’s no way to guess if this student will receive nothing, or $5K/yr, or $30K/yr, or more. The only way to find out is to apply for admission and find out after being accepted.
If this family thinks there is even a small chance GWU would be the destination (say it comes down to UNCA, GWU and a school 12-hours away with no easy way to get there. At that time, if adequate aid is offered, GWU might look like a great option.
Query: I thought this was a full-pay family needing a chunk of merit-aid. Is this a family capable and willing to pay $80K/yr, or is the budget in the $40K/yr range, or something different? If there is no budget, obviously that changes some of what I offered.
Agree with expanding search to include these schools.
Mac has a national name, and has a pretty campus in a cute residential part of St. Paul. MSP airport is a hub, so frequent and affordable flights from many airports.
St. Thomas has a gorgeous campus and is rapidly gaining national attention. Very nice neighborhood. Small university with an LAC feel. Part of a consortium with other local schools so can cross register at Macalester and others. Catholic affiliated, but I’ve known plenty of non-Catholics and non-religious students who have thrived there.