<p>Could those who are really knowledgeable about Richmond, convince me that my daughter who in interested in pursuing Business as a major study will be really on the track for a superior experience than attending The University of Alabama where as a National merit finalist she will have near a free ride plus 1/2 tuition back plus the additional 5k incentive from their business school ( which came out of her attending a business leadership academy there last summer) As middle income parents we are looking at approx. $130,000 dif. in price tag.
She will surely want to pursue a graduate degree. If is is an MBA we may need that $130k</p>
<p>Thank you for your replies.
Does the quotient change with other schools?
She just got an email that she was accepted into the business school at Wash U ,which is currently ranked 8 on the list of top undergraduate business schools .Their net price calculator is even more unkind to middle class families ,indicating a price tag of $168k
These are the only admission results so far. But what about Emory (ranked no. 5) for $144K?
Unfortunately she did not apply to Penn but will be waiting for other Ivy results. If we are lucky enough to be offered " a golden ring" to one of those, the Price tag would go down due to their endowments and we may grab for it.</p>
<p>To the original poster, you reference middle income parents. If middle income in your estimation represents <$100K in gross income, I would think that the UR aid package would be pretty compelling. If it means $100K-$150K income, then the UR aid package wont be all that compelling, versus what you describe for UA. If the retail price at UA is $22K+ for in-state residents, and youre able to attend for a fraction of that amount, I can certainly see your predicament. If youd be willing to offer some additional color on how your $130K overall price difference is computed, that might be useful. Was your daughter an early admit and do you already have a UR aid package?</p>
<p>Taking finances out of the mix, theres a stark contrast between the overall environment and culture of the University of Richmond versus the University of Alabama. The two institutions are widely divergent in every imaginable metric. UR is a small, private, liberal-arts institution with less than 3K undergrads, whereas UA is a large, public research institution with an undergrad population 10 times as large. UR, while located in the Confederate capital, has a more geographically diverse student body, and a high preponderance of Yankees hailing from the mid-Atlantic to the New England states. (There are few students attending UR that come from the Deep South). Richmond also draws a fair number of students from the Midwest and Western states and also has a higher percentage of International students. In my view, the University of Alabama epitomizes a true southern school, perhaps as much or more than Vanderbilt. Nearly 60% of undergrads come from its home state and probably another 20% come from adjacent states. Other obvious differences include the residential nature of UR, smaller class sizes, etc. </p>
<p>As the original poster expressed an interest in Business as a major, Ill relay a popular UR Admissions Department talking point, being the schools unique status as a top ranked liberal arts school, PLUS having a top ranked undergraduate business program. This is a very unique selling point in my estimation, as it sets the university apart from any other school in America. The UR undergraduate business program is ranked #15 overall by Business Week and enjoys a top 10 ranking in International Business, Accounting & Economics. (UA is rated #80 overall). Admittedly, rankings are very subjective and most universities in the top 100 will likely offer students a quality experience. Success also comes to those that make the right choices while in school and who take advantage of any and all opportunities afforded them. A student spends four years (or more) attending a college or university and the experience will shape them for a lifetime. Finding the right fit is of paramount importance to ensure a satisfying and fulfilling experience. This said, youve still got to pay the bill and I fully understand the pressure that will sometimes pull the student and parent in opposite directions.</p>
<p>One thing that I do not understand here is that U of R has “need-blind” admissions - which means that the school takes into account the resources that the family has and calculates what the student and their parents can reasonably afford to bring to the table, and then Richmond does the rest (a nice advantage to having a $1.9B endowment…yes?). Following up on the last post, $130K in debt seems like a RIDICULOUSLY high number - the OP’s family is so devoid of resources that they must take out over $32K a year in LOANS to make this work?</p>
<p>Something does not compute here.</p>
<p>Unless I get a better breakdown of the OP’s family finances, it sounds like there is a disconnect between what U of R’s financial aid office figured as the appilcant’s true resources and what they are preparing to offer. Now - if the issue is that Richmond is saying that the applicant has the resources to contribute but the family does not want to spend them, I can certainly understand that…but on the surface at least, I cannot square the statement that the OP needs to go $130K in debt to attend U of R with the fully “need-blind” admissions policy of the university.</p>
<p>Can the OP please explain how U of R is demanding that they contribute $30-35K in loan money PER YEAR to attend?</p>
<p>I think the OP is using the $130K figure not to infer a debt level, but instead extrapolating a perceived net cost variance between four years at UR versus four years at UA. Hypothetically, lets say the student in question can somehow attend UA for a tuition/room & board price tag of $5K per year, ($20K total), compliments of a lower retail price and a great scholarship, etc. What I read into the original post is that the UA net cost is somehow $130K less expensive than the UR total for the same four years. As such, using my numbers, that suggests that a four year stint at UR might run $150K total after aid, for a net out-of-pocket expense of $37,500 per year. My only retort is that this stated total seems quite high for a middle income family.</p>
<p>I addressed the UR financial aid topic and its shortcomings in an earlier post many months ago. I may bump that posting later today, as it’s again topical as acceptance & award letters will soon arrive, and financial aid is on the radar screen for many folks.</p>
<p>I think that it a totally legitimate question to ask - whether the $130K differential is worth it…but I guess what I am trying to understand is why there is a $130K difference to begin with. It is hard to imagine that a school that has a $1.9B endowment would force a family - under its “need blind” admissions policy - to require a family to take out $30-35K a year in LOANS. That does not sound “need blind” to me.</p>
<p>Perhaps the issue is that the financial aid office has determined that OP’s family, in fact, has the resources to contribute a material amount to the package. Without full disclosure by the OP, it is difficuilt to make the determination of whether U of R’s “need blind” policy is, in fact, a joke. My son was deferred ED…waiting to hear about RD…but I already know for the schools that he is looking at (Richmond, Tulane, Miami - where he got in EA) that I am writing a full-boat check. We could argue as to whether that makes sense - whether a Richmond/Tulane/UM degree is worth writing a full $50K/year check (versus setting his sights a bit lower and getting merit aid or going to a state school), but that is a choice that we can make because we have the resources to do so.</p>
<p>If the OP’s family has the resources - in UR’s opinion - to contribute more, but they don’t want to, that is a legitimate question to ask…but it still does not make sense that a school that has a $1.9B endowment fund and says they are “need blind” would require an admitted student to take out $130K in LOANS.</p>
<p>I’ve been double checking my calculations. Actually the UA cost figure is complex because it includes so many components. Up until a couple of months ago UA had and offer for NMF that included 4 years tuition and housing plus other stipends etc. This year they dropped all but the first year of housing, valued at about $7,500 per year. With the old offer the 4 years would be a free ride with a possible cash excess of around $5k. Now we are looking at a total coast at UA of about $18K for 4 years.
According to U Rich. net price calculator using our CSS profile information our contribution required there would be $32k per year x four $128K -a total difference from UA of $110k.
Our gross adjusted income is around $96K. We do have some other assets, most notably equity in our house. Since the form asked for the amount in my husband’s retirement fund, I can only presume that the colleges are figuring parents would borrow from that or take out a second mortgage on their home.
It certainly varied from college to college. My estim. with Wash U had us asked to contribute $42k Emory says $36k, Harvard $20K.
My D was a semi -finalist for the scholars program at Richmond and in the email she received notifying her that she was not a finalist,it said that she was enthusiastically accepted for admission.We have no official financial offer from them. </p>
<p>In three weeks we will have lots of other admission results, so yes in a way this discussion is premature. But it has helped me clarify what to expect with the 3 schools she actually has an acceptance from.</p>
<p>bebopdeluxe: The terminology “Need Blind Admission” refers only to a school’s commitment to not weigh a family’s financial status and their ability to pay in their decision process as to whether to accept an applicant. UR has a Need Blind policy and also has a policy to meet 100% of stated need. The caveat, however, is that every institution in the US has its own methodology to compute need. As a result, each school will evaluate a family’s finances differently, (looking at income, assets & expenses), and then uses its own institutional criteria to come up with a number. As a result, School A may conclude that a family can afford to pay $25K, whereas School B might expect them to pay $30K. Then, of equal importance, is whether the two schools can meet the difference between the “sticker price” and the Expected Family Contribution, EFC. </p>
<p>In the case study of the OP… by no means is UR asking this applicant to take out $130K in loans. That’s simply preposterous. UR, like most schools, actually caps the maximum federal loan dollars any student can apply for. The amount varies based on the student’s year in school, but I believe it’s <$7K annually. </p>
<p>The OP clarified the perceived variance between the UA and UR price tag, over four years, to be $110K. As the OP is currently relying on the school’s Net Price Calculator, rather than an actual aid offer, the numbers should to be taken with a grain of salt. </p>
<p>Therefore, in conclusion, if your lingering question is why then, in this specific case, is UA over $100K cheaper over four years, the answer is a combination of a lower sticker price, $22K for in-state UA versus $56K at UR, AND this specific applicant’s ability to somehow secure a merit based aid package that knocked the full price down to <$5K annually. </p>
<p>As with auto EPA estimates, “your results may vary.”</p>
<p>If there will be a cash difference to the family of anything like $130,000, it would be nice seed money for the student to start up or invest in a business, or work for peanuts at a start-up. There are lots of ways to get an education.</p>
<p>Just to add a complicating factor, at UA your daughter could probably get a masters in econ, finance or something else in their University Scholars program assuming she is bringing in many AP credits. My daughter faces this dilemma, too…</p>
<p>If the OP’s family wants to save the $$$ in differential for grad school, that certainly makes sense…and U of A is certainly a good school (my son applied there and was accepted). Get great grades and good test scores and the options for grad school should be plentiful. There certainly is something to be said for the smaller class sizes and generally higher-quality student body of a place like U of R, but $110K is certainly a LOT of money.</p>
<p>Late breaking info from U of Richmond.
Letter today informs us that D application is being considered for a $15K Presidential Scholarship and they are offering a $500 travel grant to have her come up to campus for a special admitted student program. I have to admit this is showing a lot of hospitality. Question is: How does something like a $15 K merit type scholarship factor into the possible $25k grant (financial based award) suggested by the net price calculator? Can we bring down that $32k per year ?</p>
<p>When a school determines your EFC and you’ve exhausted any status change or special situation appeals, your total aid amount is considered final. Therefore, if an applicant is already the recipient of a need based grant of say $25K, a Merit based award like UR’s institutionally based Presidential Scholarship will not add additional “free money” to your total. Instead, your revised aid award would simply specify $15K Scholarship and $10K University Grant. As a result, a Presidential Scholarship is really only a significant perk for applicants with little or no financial need, or if it’s awarded by a school that’s unable to meet 100% of an applicant’s need. At UR, if parents are affluent and have a high EFC, a $15K Presidential Scholarship can directly reduce the sticker price from $56K to $41K. It’s the same scenario should an applicant receive an outside scholarship. If, however, the outside scholarship total is relatively small, it first reduces any loan or work study portion of the overall UR award offer. </p>
<p>Therefore, if your EFC is $40K+ and you’re a recipient of a $15K Presidential Scholarship, celebrate the offer!! If your Richmond EFC is say $35K or lower, it may not benefit your bottom line one bit.</p>
<p>Thanks for your answer, however not the one I wanted to hear. I was hoping that the $15k would be awarded and then just be considered an asset factored in and computing an EFC slightly higher. This is a model that would make sense to me and make the award meaningful. On the other hand it is something that would unlikely be taken away, even if I win The HGTV Dream home and the $500k that comes with it.</p>
<p>doctorzin is mostly correct that UR, like most colleges, will not add “free money” to the total. But unless their policy has changed, UR <em>will</em> use merit scholarships in place of student loans and work study (which many colleges don’t). So, in the example cited, the student getting a need based grant of $25K at UR probably has an additional $5-7K in federal loans and work study, which UR includes as part of the “total package” – in this case let’s say $30K ($25K grant + $5K l/ws). UR won’t exceed the “total package” of $30K, but they will replace the $5K in l/ws with scholarship $$ before replacing University Grant. I’m pretty sure this works for all scholarships, whether you get them from the University (Presidential) or from outside sources.</p>
<p>So it does benefit the bottom line for any family receiving aid, not just those with high EFCs. The student graduates without debt (in the example above, the net result is a savings of $20K + loan interest). Also, the student is not compelled to get a job on campus via work study; but since jobs are so plentiful on UR’s campus, many students I knew in this situation got one anyway to help further reduce the EFC burden each year.</p>
<p>The second paragraph to post 6 is the key in my eyes. The two schools could not be more different. </p>
<p>Another thing to factor in, is where your daughter wants to live after school. If it’s in the NE (DC on up 95), the connections made at UR could easily be worth the $130k. If its in the south, then UA is probably more advantageous. </p>
<p>It’s kind of hard to believe that a student would view both schools as being places they would want to attend because they are so different. Best of luck with your decision.</p>