Am I being unreasonable?

Parents Forum
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<p>D did not work during high school. She was at a boarding school and it was not allowed. With 3-4 hours of homework per night it would have been tough. We told her that her job was to learn and do her best academically. She worked summers and saved almost every penny of her post-senior year summer for college spending money.</p>

<p>Now at college, everything is provided for her just as it was in high school, and her study commitments are similar, but not as extreme. We give her a small allowance per month that she budgets. If she wants more spending money, she can get a job. It's up to her, but not a necessity.</p>

<p>Her full-time job is still being a student and living up to her potential and our expectations that she do her best.</p>

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<p>Why do high schoolers work?</p>

<p>For some it's an absolute necessity; for others, it is to acquire a work ethic and good management skills. All good reasons.<br>
Then there are kids who work in order to buy what they consider necessities: ipod, car, bling, expensive items of clothing and footwear. They work hard to accumulate enough money to purchase all these things and neglect their studies.</p>

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<p>Wow, I must be the harda** here. I say let them work. My D had 2 p/t jobs since she was 14. At first they were just during the summer (junior camp counselor). Then she got hired at Target for a VERY flexible p/t (12 hrs a week) job and truly excelled (they allow extra time off without hassles for school/ECs/etc.). In addition she worked as a teacher's assistant every weekend. That job also provided flex time for whatever reason. That job was 8 hours a week. During summers she bumped her hours at Target because school was not in session. Her grades remained constant, she kept up with her ECs, and her social life was fine. In fact now that she's in college, she barely has 4 hours of work a week, and says she has too much free time. She'd love to work more.</p>

<p>I think working is good for students.</p>

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<p>As a college freshman now, I can not emphasize how great it was to have a job during high school. I started working at a local ice cream shop during my freshman year of high school because I had known the owner for a very long time and he always wanted me to apply. I started working in April, and started working 5 hours on a Saturday afternoon. By the summer, I was working anywhere from 10-20 hours a week, which was enough to bring in extra spending money and to start saving. During the school year, my parents limited my working hours to Friday night, Saturday all day, and Sundays as long as I was done by 9 or 10 at night. As the years/summers went on, my shifts increased, but school nights other than Sunday were always off limits as my parents made me devote them to homework. As I went on, and my wages increased, I wasn't always worried about fitting in hours, which was also nice. In the end, I have a much better appriciation of the money my parents earn and give to me. Although they still provide the basics for me (college, food, clothes, some spending money, books, ect), I like having money of my own to buy personal things, as it has made me more concious of what I buy and use. Plus, it made finding a job in college much easier because I wasn't as worried about starting on another new venture in college.</p>

<p>Overall, I suggest that he gets a job. There's ways to work in everything. But try to help him find a job he'll enjoy. I loved my job and the people I worked with, which made it so much nicer. Also, look for a job that there's room for growth (wages, position, ect), especially ones he could possibly become a leader in (such as a shift manager, part-time manager, ect). Remind him that all of this will not only look positive to colleges, but also future employers.
Good luck =)</p>

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<p>Both of my kids took a very challenging courseload in h.s. and were highly involved with numerous ECs. They literally did not have time to watch TV and it was difficult to even schedule family gatherings for birthdays, etc. The only paid work they did during the school year (with the exception of my daughter's senior year, see below) was tutoring through National Honor Society (outside of school hours, at our home or the tutee's home), which they could arrange on their own schedules. During the summers, they were involved with a variety of academic enrichment/volunteer/paid/personal/athletic musical activities (between the two kids).<br>
We were glad they did not work during the school year because they were definitely spending their time productively, were not excessively interested in acquiring material goods compared to many teens (e.g. fancy clothes, shoes, etc.), and we were fortunate to be in a position not to need them to contribute financially.
Anyway, my daughter wanted to get a "real" job for the summer after her senior year, and, as mentioned above, was afraid that she would not be able to obtain one if she waited until school was over. She worked at a large chain arts and crafts store (a very nice envronment to work in compared to some other retail jobs). They scheduled her for more hours during the school year than she had wanted, but that was part of accepting the job (even though she gave them the days she was available.) Her regular ECs and classwork (4 APs, including one independent study) did not stop, and there were all kinds of special events for the end of the senior year (Academic Honors Ceremony and Dinner, Band Banquet, special band performances, multi-day trips for Model UN and Future Problem Solving state competition, I can't remember what else) and it was a horrible stress to try to balance work with all of these. She could not ask for too much adjustment of the work schedule, but she also didn't want to miss her events.
The stress was definitely not worth the money she earned to work during the school year, but there is still the issue of availability of SUMMER jobs if one waits too long.</p>

<p>EDIT - Just a Mom cross posted with me. In my D's case, the issue was more the flexibility than the time spent working. In her D's case, Target was very flexible, so the same problems did not arise. Maybe he could ask about flexibility in scheduling when he accepts the job?</p>

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<p>Personal experience, my 2 cents:</p>

<p>Eldest S, public high school, within top 10% of class, NHS and other accolades. Exceptional musician (violist) which afforded him opportunities to earn significant $ on an occasional basis throughout the school year and summers that would have exceeded a pt minimum wage job throughout the same periods. This enabled him to continue him to develop musically, participate in high intensity summer music experiences, and still be able to schedule practices and allow the last minute gig opportunity without the hassle of having to reschedule a "real job" commitment to accommodate a far better paying gig.</p>

<p>One summer camp immediately placed him on faculty after his first week, teaching/coaching chamber music to adults, many 2 and 3 times his age. He's now going to be there for the fourth year, enjoying what is for him a paid 2 week summer vacation doing what he loves.</p>

<p>His first real job was last summer, driving vehicles between points for a rental car company that allowed him the flexibility of still being able to get time off for his summer teaching and a fellowship opportunity.</p>

<p>Child 2, D, same public HS, solid grades, top 20% of class, varsity soccer player 4 years. Until her interest in soccer began to wane, used same philosophy, allowing her to participate in soccer throughout the summer.</p>

<p>Her career choice is dogs... kennel management, training, animal behaivor. She got her first job at 16 at a local kennel, and replaced that with a better paying similar job. Throughout high school and summers she averaged 30+/hrs per week excluding the soccer season while maintaining academics.</p>

<p>Both kids are at the colleges of their choice, pursuing career paths that they chose. We require each to contibute a portion of their educational expense, so the net effect is S has more $ in school loans than his sister, as she was able to provide cash to offset her portion towards college. </p>

<p>S has limited $ for personal use while at school, and this has been a four year ongoing issue; D has basically squandered her savings on personal pleasure, with no tangible long term use purchases, but it was her money.</p>

<p>Both kids were gifted a more than slightly used car for their personal use by extended family, and we provided insurance and school use gas money.</p>

<p>Did either benefit from the different employment history? The way I see it, they both got to continue pursuing their respective muse, providing hands on experience in their chosen fields before college.</p>

<p>Did either learn fiscal responsibility? I doubt it.</p>

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<p>H and I had this conversation last weekend---Our D has not had a job (yet) either, other than weekend babysitting gigs for the neighbors....we've been from the camp that school work was #1, with some room for ECs, but rarely any time for TV or anything else during the week. Has she missed out on learning valuable life lessons because of not having a part-time job? I don't think so. During the summers, she went to CTY, and the last couple of summers we've travelled all summer. I think these activities have done more to shape her personality and attitudes than a summer job serving french fries (there are few opportunities for astrophysics research as a 17-yr-old). On the other hand, we've told her to plan to get a job on campus within her department (10/hrs a week or so) while she's in college. I think it's an excellent way to get more familiar with faculty in the area of interest right away. She's got LOTS of years of working ahead of her.</p>

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<p>I agree with marite: the whole business of insisting teens work even if they don't have to is a little nuts. </p>

<p>Here's my personal (I know, very un-American) take on this.
1. Kids' jobs should be school
2. It's OK to have free time. They're kids. They have their entire lives to work.
3. It's OK not to have money for ipods and fancy shoes because it's OK not to have these things. They're not necessities. Let's not make our kids more materialistic and bigger consumers than they already are.
4. Realistically, what kinds of "skills" do teens learn on these crummy jobs? How to punch a cash register? Flip a burger? </p>

<p>To OP - you have a kid willing to work during the summer. I'm sure he'll find something because he sounds responsible. Let him have his senior year without the added stress of a part-time job that by its very nature is probably poorly paying and hardly enriching. He'll learn what he needs to learn in time. You're only 17 once...</p>

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<p>amomof4: Count your blessings. Give him the down time he needs to continue to compete at such a high level. He could burn out by the time he gets to college.</p>

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<p>I agree with Katliamom. Her thoughts are very well put. </p>

<p>On the other hand, I have known some high school students who are not motivated or interested in school work, no matter how much their parents have tried. For these kids, who would not be doing school work in any case, a part time job may be preferable than too much free time, as far as learning responsibility and staying out of trouble.</p>

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<p>Agreed, MotherofTwo. If D did not have school work ethic that she does, she would have LOTS of time for a job, and I'm sure we would encourage it to learn responsibility (AND stay out of trouble).</p>

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<p>We "made" D get a part-time job second semester of her senior year, and it went a long way in improving her maturity. She was very high achieving and involved in school activities, but she had a bit of a "princess" mentality and was naive in dealing with the working world.</p>

<p>It was a great way to meet people outside of school, and she learned a lot about time management. Plus, it was comforting to know that she wasn't part of the summer job scramble that so many of her friends were involved in when May rolled around!</p>

<p>Different strokes for different folks, I guess.</p>

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<p>I agree with the sense of several others: school and EC's <em>is</em> the job. Absent an economic need, let him be. Drawing an inference from what the OP has posted, S's work ethic is just fine. So what if it's not geared towards a paid job?</p>

<p>Fwiw, our D did not even work during summers because she was away on EC-related camps (ballet).</p>

<p>She had no problem adapting to work when she hit college and had work-study as part of her FinAid. And in fact her first summer she stayed on a school for a couple of months because she was invited to apply for a 9-week research assistant position funded by the National Science Foundation. The second summer included a 40-hour/week internship with a stiff dress code yada yada. If you have a high achieving student, odds are heavy that they'll continue to achieve at a high level in everything, including working when the time comes. My advice is to back off.</p>

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<p>Katliamom, I work in corporate HR and I could not disagree with you more. For new grads I always ask if they worked summers in HS (it's usually on the resume anyway). It is a point of distinction for a kid who was a high achiever in HS to have also held down a paying job.</p>

<p>I'm not interested in the kids technique in serving french fries. HS kids-- especially upper middle class ones who don't "need' the money to help pay the rent or pay the gas bill-- learn a ton from paid employment. Whether it's taking orders from a boss (who in some cases is from a different socio-economic group, may not have gone to college... but is still the boss) or dealing with the public who doesn't care that you got an 800 on your Math SAT-- why did you overcharge me sales tax? there is a lot to learn from paid employment-- menial, secretarial, hard labor, whatever.</p>

<p>H and I came from the school of hard knocks ourselves. Kids didn't "need" to work for spending money, but we are not believers in buying the kids luxury items that we ourselves would never purchase, nor did we feel that paid work was beneath them. I am very, very glad they had the experience of working.</p>

<p>One kid was too lazy and unmotivated to get a "respectable" job, so he mopped floors on the night shift at a fast food restaurant. An invaluable opportunity, apart from the hilarious college essay on "how to get grease stains out of a polyester uniform". Other kid got a "respectable" job working in an office; was the first experience dealing with a bureaucracy, a paranoid co-worker, seeing that the guy who fixed the copy machine was the smartest person in the whole company, etc.</p>

<p>The cash was incidental, although it did buy them freedom from our interference in their financial affairs for a while. The life's lessons taught were huge. I'd encourage the OP to suggest a paying job. It doesn't need to be glamorous or socially acceptable, i.e. research in an academic field. The discipline of taking orders from a boss and getting along with colleagues is very different from the discipline of being a high achiever.</p>

<p>My company recruits from top schools and we love kids who had a little grit thrown their way, even if they grew up with all the advantages that money can buy. Campus employment is usually not the same as the jobs kids get in HS; indexing a book for a Nobel prize winner or working the help desk at the computer lab doesn't put you in the line of fire with "real people" the way that folding sweaters at the Gap does.</p>

<p>just my two cents.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
He won't have the work ethic that he will need for the future.

[/quote]
-- from the OP</p>

<p>Sounds to me like he already has the work ethic, given his high achievements. I've always told my kids their job is school.</p>

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<p>I haven't read every post, but will add the following in hopes it isn't redundant.</p>

<p>You're worried that he doesn't <em>want</em> to work. He doesn't have to want to. I am in the camp that believes school and EC's are the job during term time. But if you require him to seek and find a job in the summer, he should. That is what we did.</p>

<p>Your worry that the "good ones will be gone" if he doesn't start now might be valid in your area. It is not valid in our area. Now (or in the next several weeks) is the time to find the summer job, to get the "good ones." But they can secure a job which starts at the end of the school term, so I don't see why he has to start one now. That approach could be a good compromise within the family.</p>

<p>And if he doesn't find a "good one," that wouldn't change my requirement that my son find a summer job. Good one or not.</p>

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<p>My daughter used the exact same logic - I get good grades and I'm not drinking or using drugs, etc. LOL
She did play a varsity sport and had a lot of other ec's so we did not expect a job during the school year. We did require her to get a job in the summer and she did, though she requested off so much she did not earn very much. LOL Now that she is a freshman in college she wishes that she had worked more and had saved more money , so I am hoping for a little stronger work ethic this summer.
Her sister does not have a lot of ec's and chose to get a job at 16. She works a lot and LOVES it. She does not care about clothes or "things" so she is putting away quite a nest egg for herself. Two very different kids so whose to say which is ideal.
If your son is not doing much this summer educationally, maybe he will like having a job to fill the time?</p>

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<p>No job for our kid in high school. She could barely fit in studying for school, high school band, weekend orchestra, church activities as it was! During the summers, she was either touring with the youth orchestra or going to a science research program (2 months). She couldn't even find time to schedule drivers ed in her schedule. Didn't get her license till age 18.</p>

<p>Why put the added pressure of a job on your high achieving high school kid?</p>

<p>She took a part time job during her sophomore year at college. Grades fell--told her to cut out some extracurriculars and lose the job.</p>

<p>Does this mean that my D will never be willing to get a job ever? Doubt it and hope not...</p>

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<p>Ours had/have jobs in the summer, unless they're going to summer school, like my college son will be doing one summer. A lot depends on what your son will be doing with all his spare time if he doesn't have a part time job- our kids found that working 15 to 20 hours a week in the summer left plenty of time to do whatever else they wanted to do, plus they had their own spending money. Also, they made friends at their jobs- one of my sons met his gf there. It also gave them confidence and made them more responsible. Volunteering would do the same thing, except no money. :(</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm worried that because we have provided so much for him.....meager spending money, gas money for car (he paid for 1/2 of car by saving birthday money, etc.....for many years); insurance, etc.... He won't have the work ethic that he will need for the future.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You know your son better than anyone. I get the sense that you're a bit concerned about an attitude of entitlement more than work ethic. Certainly he has a wonderful work ethic for what he wants to achieve, as he's proven that in his schoolwork and school leadership.
I don't think this is an unreasonable concern, although I also believe kids need some downtime, especially during this last semester transition period before going off to school. You say he has a substantial free time. How does he use it? Sometimes what we consider wasting time may actually be valuable time for introspection and growth. The fact that he has been so on the straight and narrow throughout high school would make me suspect that he needs this time.. but that doesn't help your concern regarding entitlement.</p>

<p>I think I'd ask that he make some real efforts over the spring break to find a summer job. As someone mentioned earlier, this is the time to research and possibly secure one for later. He's has already agreed to a summer job. As long as he knows a job - possibly a full-time job, is an expectation, regardless of whether it is the perfect one or not, I see no reason to make this a battle right now. Let him enjoy his high school successes and cement his memories. It's harder for kids who have been leaders and big men/women on campus to leave everything they love behind. It can be kind of painful, actually. But then when summer hits, he should be out hitting the pavement if he hasn't already lined something up this spring. Even the job hunt itself can be humbling.</p>