So… I’m not asking for anyone to pat me on the back and tell me you believe in me. But, I want someone to hit me with some reality. I want someone to at least attempt to see all sides of this the way I do. I am not great at math, B student I’d say. My grade does not come from hard work and full understanding, but instead a natural understanding of the basic concept. If I’m going to be honest, I strongly dislike math. I never had the early foundation for it and definitely did not help myself out when I didn’t pay attention for the entirety of high school. I loved both chemistry and physics and understood both extremely well. I was a student who barely did homework but maintained a high grade in the class because of testing.
I know that stepping into engineering I am asking to be bombarded with work, and I’m ready to make the full switch in work ethic. That aside, I need to know. Am I making a mistake and getting ahead of myself? I feel like I truly have the cognitive ability and I have a large focus on cause-effect relationships, problem-solving, structure, and logical deduction. I have been in contact with a couple of people who have already been through the schooling to be an engineer, and they have attempted to instill some confidence. I have confidence, but I’m afraid I am overestimating myself and their reassurance is rooted in something else. People I know have confidence, and I am a more than competent individual but uncertainty still looms over me. To put it all down: I believe I have what it takes to have a job in engineering and be very good at it, but the schooling worries me.
Words of advice? I’ve debated a 3-2 but I think what I’d learn in a liberal arts college doesn’t really benefit me. I have the communication and business aspects, I’ve always been humanities heavy. There is no job I believe would suit me better and nothing else has the end I want.
This is secondary but also any ideas on schools I should apply to? Project-based programs, not super competitive Ex. WPI, Cal Poly Pomona
This is definitely a fair question to ask: I guess it’s because I see engineering as problem-solving with math as an aid/background rather than just an implementation of math in order to get the solution.
I answered this above. I understand what I’m asking for, I think I can understand and apply the concepts learned in math. But the math itself is what may prove to be difficult. I hope I’m painting my distinction correctly.
The reality is many people start off in Engineering in college and then drop out, usually to do some other program although some might leave college entirely. Some studies have suggested it is about 40% in the first year, another 10-20% in a later year. It is a very tough subject and one of the common reasons why is the difficulty and pace of the math.
There are many, many fields which involve practical problem-solving but don’t have this same level of math intensity. I think at a minimum you should have in mind some alternatives, and should go to a college where if you moved to an alternative it would be a good choice.
But I will admit that like other posters, I am wondering if maybe you should take a look at whether one of those alternatives might be a better Plan A as opposed to a Plan B.
I think you will be fine in engineering if you get Bs in math without effort. Most of the math in engineering are taught in the context of an application (maximization, mechanics, etc.) and not in abstraction like in pure Math subjects. If you put in the effort, you definitely have a chance to pass engineering with flying colors. Being strong in physics is definitely a plus if you do engineering.
Another major you might want to explore is Applied Physics. Good luck!
(Fwiw, im a chem/envi engineering graduate and have many colleagues that are fairly average in school but doing well in the engineering profession)
There are tons of fields which are essentially problem-solving with math as an aid/background.
Urban Planning, Econ, Cognitive Science and Psychology, Architecture, Construction Management, various streams of human resources (Compensation, Benefits Planning, Workforce Planning, Labor Relations), Agronomy, etc.
You really need to explore a bunch of different careers (in addition to the ones I’ve mentioned) where Not Loving Math is not problematic. It is potentially problematic in engineering just because there is SO MUCH OF IT. Everywhere, all the time. You can successful in lots of fields with math as the backdrop but where it isn’t the actual language of the discipline…
My daughter had an engineering prof say that “engineering is a festival of calculus.” She would agree 100%. As noted by others, if you hate math look at other majors as there is no getting around math in engineering.
You sound very capable and seem to prefer physics and chemistry over math.
I don’t think you would have a problem with the math, I think you would have issues with the pace of the math required in the major because there are so many concepts that need to be rapidly mastered to move onto the next level of engineering.
I have 3 engineers in the family. Two are EECS, one is in computer engineering + physics. All three are naturals in math and computations in their head. My husband and daughter were both Engineering tutors in college. My daughter stated that the majority of students, who came to her for tutoring, had difficulty with the math; they all were strong students but needed refreshers from previous calculus classes. Speed and math experience was an issue for her students when trying to keep up with the lectures.
So, I applaud your efforts at attempting engineering, but you need to go in aware that the pace of the courses makes the major very tough.
This is one of the shelves that was a reference for our kids (in high school and college). There are two more bookcases filled with engineering texts (5 shelves each!) from my husband’s undergrad and grad schools. (He also has a “lending library” at work for his junior engineers who may “need extra guidance.”) Calculus books are all over the house.
If your good at high level Physics then your doing Calc. Not really studying is common. All these smart kids never studied in high school. If you take this approach in college then you will fail. First semester to first year your GPA can drop a full grade.
Working in groups is key.
Industrial engineering is more Stat /Calc heavy. It’s sort of business engineering so lots of analysis. Take a look at what they do… Lots of business principles and working with a team.
But first as you stated get more serious in school and look at different fields.
Many students blossom in college. Many, many, many, many, many, even when they did just okay in high school. Just like some people don’t blossom until they start working. It is true what people have said that 50% switch out of engineering. But that does not mean you are in that 50%. If you have a strong interest in engineering try it out. But also be prepared you might change your major. College is or should be about exploration. One thing. If your Math training is weak, you might want to start in a pre - calculus class. This might slow you down, but it is what it is. You could, as a start on this path, get an introductory mechanical engineering textbook, algebra based, and see if you like those kinds of problems. Google free engineering textbook. Finally, problem solving, as others have said, is important in many fields, so think about other fields too.
You aren’t saying that you’ve worked hard at math and still gotten B’s; you’re saying that you don’t like it, and thus have coasted and gotten B’s. So, you’ve never really found out where the limits of your abilities are. But you do know that you don’t like math, so it becomes a question of how much you’re willing to suffer for a goal, I guess!
I’m taking it that you’re already a senior, applying to college. Since you’re not fully settled on a major, I think it would make sense to apply to some engineering programs, but also apply to some alternative programs, and continue to research your options.
Are you in-state in California? (Cal Poly Pomona doesn’t attract a ton of OOS applicants, so I’m guessing you might be CA-based.) If you’re competitive for engineering at CPP, you might be able to get into the Packaging major at Cal Poly SLO and/or SJSU. To me, this program sounds like exactly what you’re looking for: a project-based, problem-solving-oriented major with a strong science foundation, but not as math-y as engineering. It combines elements of engineering, materials science, design, and business. Packaging students have fantastic employment outcomes. The major is often overlooked, perhaps because the name sounds underwhelming (“What, you want me to major in… boxes…?”); but it’s really far more interesting than it sounds… and the “overlooked” aspect makes it an easier admit for those who know about it. Students design all sorts of creative solutions to real-world problems, in many different sectors. Math-wise, at the CSU schools, Packaging students take one semester of calculus and one semester of stats… plus chem and physics, which you like, and a lot of project-based classes in the major.
Another major you might like is Food Science. Again, this a science-heavy field - especially chem - but not as relentlessly math-heavy as engineering. (Here are the requirements at VT, which has several different tracks: Undergraduate Catalog--Food Science and Technology Course Descriptions). It’s much more applied and real-world problem-solving oriented than a pure-science major. You’ll find this major at most universities that have an ag school, and it’s typically a lot easier to get into than engineering, so you could take a shot at a few schools that wouldn’t be on the table for engineering (for example, depending on your stats, UC Davis, UIUC, UMass Amherst, Purdue). And there are quite a few schools that have both Food Science and Packaging (VT, Michigan State, Western Michigan, Cal Poly, Rutgers, Washington State, Clemson). And Food Science is just one example of an ag-school based major you might like - scan the list of majors in these schools to see what else might appeal, as well.
Finally, there’s the possibility of Engineering Technology majors, which can lead to similar career options, but which are more practical and less theoretical/math-y. There are a number of schools that offer both Engineering and Engineering Tech majors, so that you have an option if you want to stay in the field but dial back the math requirements. U of Maine is a good one for this (plus their Flagship Match program can make it quite affordable for OOS students). RIT is another.
Hope that helps! Not all of the above suggestions may fit what appeals to you, but I thought it worth running ideas up the proverbial flagpole. Even if you do go for an engineering major, it can be worth highlighting schools that have alternative majors you like, so that you have an “off-ramp” you could be happy with if you change your mind.
So the short answer is - No, you are not reaching too far. If problem solving and logical deduction are things you enjoy, I would say try it out - colleges seem more about experimenting with majors these days. It is easier to start in engineering and transfer out then to start out of engineering and transfer in. Not liking math but being competent in math without even trying is not going to stop you. Probably 10-20% of the people I knew in college in engineering would say they hated math. After you get a degree in engineering, there are plenty of jobs that do not require doing math all day (or ever). You may consider brushing up on math in the summer before you begin (pre-calc at a local college for example)
I am not going to tell you that you are wrong for engineering.
You might wisely consider one of those universities that lets you move somewhat freely from major-to-major and school-to-school. Specialized schools certainly seem higher risk.
Agree with those who say engineering is very math heavy. Both my s’s are engineers, and both are very strong in math. They did lots and lots of problem sets in college. That said, unlikely in their current roles (senior technical program managers) that they are using much math. It’s now their management skills, which sounds like is a strength for you. Good luck!
I think the abstractness of a math class is the issue. I think math in context, as someone stated above, might be the difference. Having a real-life scenario to connect makes things more evident.
