<p>If you don’t want to go to college and no one will change your mind, why did you post this? Do you just want people to validate your opinion? Is that why you are attacking anyone whose opinion deviates from yours?</p>
<p>Truck driver, nurse, electrician, etc. are all skilled jobs that require some sort of post-secondary education, even if it is not that which leads to a bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>With any education, you have to choose the best value to achieve your education goals without spending too much money.</p>
<p>Highly motivated people can gain education through self-education. However, since self-education is not credentialed, self-educated people are often most able to succeed in self-employment, where they are selling a specific product or service, rather than working as an employee, where they are selling their labor.</p>
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<p>Are you sure? A new Chick Fil A opened here within the past month and they had 880+ apps for roughly 80 jobs. That’s < 10% acceptance rate. I doubt many of the jobs were high paying. Unemployment rate for the area is 6.9% as of April. There are oodles of ads all over for self-employed people or companies wanting jobs with home improvement, etc. I don’t know that they all have work. There used to not be so many ads.</p>
<p>You can probably still make a living driving truck. If it appeals to you, try it. As I mentioned before, college is not the path for everyone. If you change your mind later, there will be opportunities to get a degree. I know several doing that after they hit a ceiling at work or after they got laid off and need a job change. Incidentally, all of those I know with teens sent or are sending their kids to college right after high school, but that still doesn’t mean YOU have to do it if it’s not the right fit for you.</p>
<p>It makes sense that you don’t want to be ‘swindled’ -taking lots of loans in your and your parents’ name for a zero return on investment. Explore various possibilities. Remember that some of the most expensive colleges may be the best bargain - in Arkansas for example Hendrix is the most famous school for bargain hunters because the quality is very high and they discount a lot. Look into ‘skills’ certificates too. Keep your options open for best value and best return on investment. You’re right to be careful.</p>
<p>OP’s mind sounds closed. A closed mind isn’t exactly what a college is supposed to tackle. Maybe he needs to work for a year, see if his ideas pan out.</p>
<p>Congratulations, you can see the big picture. I.E. the cost of college might be exceeding it’s benefit. It’s smart to question it. Also, as Asian labor rates rise, US could see a resurgence in manufacturing. It might be the business of the future for the entrepreneur. (small business/small parts)</p>
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<p>Although the cost of college is becoming exceedingly high, I would question whether its benefit is even quantifiable. That is, in what high-paying industry would you be hired without a college degree of some sort? Now, if you want to start and raise a family, you should probably be looking at a career with a salary above $50,000, depending on where you want to live. And which careers pay at that rate that do not require a college degree? The ones that do are probably cutthroat in terms of competitiveness. Think about it.</p>
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<p>Stacking boxes is a menial job; Electrician is not a menial job. The skilled trades are fairly well paid and do steady often interesting work that cannot be outsourced. My electrician turned his skill into a small business and is doing quite well. The same for my plumber and carpenter. Laurence Kotlikoff, professor of economics at Boston University, has figured out that a plumber makes more in his lifetime than his doctor:</p>
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<p>Source: [Forget</a> Harvard and a 4-Year Degree, You Can Make More as a Plumber in the Long Run, Says Prof. Kotlikoff | Fin - Daily Ticker - US - Yahoo! Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/forget-harvard-4-degree-more-plumber-long-run-20110318-063704-224.html]Forget”>Forget Harvard and a 4-Year Degree, You Can Make More as a Plumber in the Long Run, Says Prof. Kotlikoff)</p>
<p>snarlatron, you’re just making my point. Re-read my post. I was not insinuating that being an electrician is a menial job - quite the opposite, actually. I was saying that even electricians, whose jobs are not menial, go to school to earn a two-year degree in order to advance/be better in their field. Many small business owners have college degrees and those that do tend to keep making their business bigger through effective management. </p>
<p>Note that general practitioners earn one of the lowest salaries out of all doctors - in fact, mid-career college professors in several fields make more than general practitioners. Now, the big money is in the specialties. Specialists’ salaries range anywhere from $200,000 to $800,000 a year, depending on specialty and location of practice. Now, I understand the high costs of medical school, but could you please explain the tax rate argument? I’m not sure I understand it. The tax system is set up in tiers, where everybody pays according to salary, no? And if a plumber makes more money than a doctor, then it stands to reason that he would have to pay more taxes than the doctor, unless he was shielding his money in some offshore account, no?</p>
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<p>OK - I guess I misread your post.</p>
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<p>Plumbers may make more money over their lifetime, but not in any given year. GPs will have their earnings pushed into fewer years, and therefore will face higher marginal tax rates that do not touch the plumber.</p>
<p>On another note, the earnings difference is exacerbated when doctors spend freely on luxury items after they see those big paychecks, pursuing consumption over wealth. My doctor wears a Rolex and drives a German car. My electrician wears some kind of watch he got at Target and drives an old van.</p>
<p>Okay, I think I understand now. It’s all very interesting to me because I’m pre-med. But then again, I would still choose the medical path any day because I want to make an impact on the world and on people. I mean, I want to be able to alleviate human suffering. But I guess fixing broken toilet pipes alleviate nasal suffering. I’m just joking, but I would choose the medical path for reason other than money.</p>
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<p>Your parents started their careers in very different times, when it was possible for high school graduates to get jobs that would support their families and buy homes, etc. Very different now.</p>
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<p>I hope that you do not take Dr. Kotlikoff’s words (or mine) as a dig at medicine. (BTW my Dad and Father-in-Law are both Drs.). His and my point is to look at the skilled trades as pragmatic options for some people, and to realize that those trades (as opposed to unskilled labor) can be financially rewarding.</p>
<p>After you’re a Dr. read “The Millionaire Next Door” by Stanley & Danko. They warn against the spending trap that many Drs. fall into that keeps them from building actual wealth. Best wishes for your career!</p>
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<p>Perhaps the watches reflect more on their attitudes toward spending on luxury or status-symbol goods than their actual wealth.</p>
<p>On the cars, [this</a> German car](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Volkswagen_Golf_Mk_II_1_--_01-22-2010.jpg]this”>File:Volkswagen Golf Mk II 1 -- 01-22-2010.jpg - Wikipedia) might be worth less than [this</a> old van](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freightliner_Sprinter_.jpg]this”>File:Freightliner Sprinter .jpg - Wikipedia).</p>
![http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Volkswagen_Golf_Mk_II_1_--_01-22-2010.jpg]this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Volkswagen_Golf_Mk_II_1_--_01-22-2010.jpg%5Dthis){kind=link}
![http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freightliner_Sprinter_.jpg]this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freightliner_Sprinter_.jpg%5Dthis){kind=link}
<p>^I guess it is a form of conspicuous consumption. And if the doctor has that sort of attitude towards spending on luxury, and actually owns the watch and nice car, then it’s probably safe to assume that he has a trend of using his accumulated wealth to buy those items. </p>
<p>But, I also assume that if the doctor can afford the Rolex and nice car, he has a much greater lifetime income than the electrician, though their wealth at the end might be similar. </p>
<p>snarlatron, yeah, my attitude is simply to go into a trade you love. But increasingly, all trades are requiring college degrees or something to distinguish the multitudes applying for entry-level positions. Perhaps college is a necessary evil to be able to succeed at what you really want to do? I hope I can embark upon the medical path - I still have to get into med school first!</p>
<p>The cars that people drive are not some proof of wealth or lack of it.</p>
<p>My doctor, very successful and an amazing investor, drives an old Chevy that he works on himself when it needs repairs. According to his wife, he’s cheap. lol</p>
<p>Mine, too, and no Rolex. And he’s my age, with no retirement in sight. </p>
<p>I know docs who are not pulling big bucks out of their practices or positions with teaching hospitals/med schools. And some plumbers who are grand entrepreneurs. </p>
<p>Anyone can acquire the goods that look like wealth. Says zip about their bank accounts. My contractor friend (works alone) drives a Mercedes- probably the fourth owner. He lives a great life based on his priorities, not impressing others.</p>
<p>The cars are not proof of affluence at that end of the spectrum. I mean, there are plenty of frugal rich people. However, it is also safe to assume only an affluent person can wear a Rolex AND drive a really nice car. At that end of the spectrum, chances are that person is a conspicuous consumer who wants to show off his/her newfound wealth/income.</p>
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<p>I don’t want to prolong this thread, which is probably beyond its expiration date, but I can’t hold myself back! High income and wealth are 2 very different things. Many people with a high income appear rich but are burning through most of their earnings every year to pay for the BMW, the Rolex, the Country Club. Many people with actual wealth (savings & investments) may not appear rich, though they are. According to Thomas J. Stanley’s research, the car most millionaires drive is a Toyota and the watch most millionaires wear is a Seiko. One reason that they are wealthy is that they are investing rather than consuming.</p>
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<p>Actually, IME, it’s more often the folks who want to appear rich whether they have true wealth or struggle to make the payments.</p>
<p>Way back in the old days when I worked as a cashier in a grocery store I was stunned to learn that those who used coupons and bought store brand items the most were those who (seemingly) had more wealth - even some I absolutely knew had enough money (small town - sometimes you know). Those on food stamps (still real stamps/coupons back then) very often would only buy name brand and very seldom had coupons. Yes, there were exceptions, but nonetheless, I was stunned by what I was seeing in general. This was not in any sort of recession time period.</p>
<p>I do believe those who truly have more wealth just know how to save/spend better. Those who want to appear wealthy - whether they have $$ or not - will make it happen.</p>